Witness Statement - Page 3 - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums
By Coupon-mad 17th Jul 17, 8:21 PM
I would not re-do the costs schedule, just take it plus ask for more, based on their conduct. Do not let an Usher tell you to leave, if the case is no longer on the list, insist on 5 minutes with the Judge on the spot (be very polite and no need to mention when you read the discontinuance email nor mention any phone call, play dumb).
By Soddingtypical 17th Jul 17, 8:55 PM
What does PD stand for in loadsofchildren's doc. please?
By Umkomaas 17th Jul 17, 9:02 PM
Haven't gone to the doc, but it's likely to be Practice Direction.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practice_direction
By Lamilad 17th Jul 17, 10:57 PM
Sorry, Lamilad suggesting emailing the judge
"Correct! You should either email the judge ..."
If you were going to email the judge you would send the email to the court FAO: Judge xxxxxx or FAO the presiding judge in claim no.xxxxxxx
You can't email a judge directly. Coupon mad is right - you should try speak to the judge in person if at all possible
By Soddingtypical 18th Jul 17, 3:06 PM
I got costs! An advocate for the other side turned up and approached me before the hearing to say I didn't need to go in and did I accept the discontinuance but I did not engage with her and just said that I wanted to see the judge anyway.
The judge started with the discontinuance and asked if the reason it was being discontinued was because it was pre 2012 and therefore there was no case to bear if I wasn't admitting to being the driver (I wasn't the driver!). The advocate just went along with it and said it was but don't think she even had many details. I think she was expecting not to go into court.
The judge had received my costs schedule and said that he would go through it. He didn't give much away and, at points, seemed like he was veering towards judging against the costs being awarded but systematically went through the costs schedule to which the advocate argued for every point. The judge said that, despite the fact the email had been sent yesterday, that didn't give me enough time to change leave. He wanted proof and I had printed out the email with the time stamp on so that satisfied him. The advocate argued that I couldn't claim for loss of earnings because I could have not come but the judge said that if I had not come, I wouldn't have been able to claim for costs. He also asked her why she had come if they had not expected me to come and said "what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander".
When he got onto the additional costs, he asked why the claim was unreasonable and I stumbled a bit here with nerves but managed to get across that there had never been a case to answer because not only was it pre 2012 which the solicitor knew was pre POFA but also because I had actually bought a ticket. He actually went through the evidence at this point and saw the PDT log and looked a little bit annoyed. He said "there isn't a weak claim that needs strong litigation to win, there is no claim at all to answer" or something very similar. He asked the advocate to comment on it and she said that she had just been told to come to court to discontinue the claim and because "the claim has been discontinued to this is immaterial" or something similar.
Anyway, he awarded me loss of earnings and travel and 3 hours litigant in person. I had claimed for £20 postage, photocopying and printing but he only awarded £5 as he said I hadn't needed to do copies for everyone. A grand total of £175.
Thanks so much everyone for your help. Thanks to Coupon-mad, Lamilad and Umkomaas - really couldn't have done it without you and probably would have just paid up. I'll start a new thread with all the documentation on from beginning to end so other people can use it they want it. I'm very behind with my own work after spending so long on this but will put it up at the end of the week when I removed all personal information from it.
Last edited by Soddingtypical; 18-07-2017 at 3:14 PM.
By Umkomaas 18th Jul 17, 3:12 PM
Great feedback, ST and good you received some costs - but rarely ever enough to cover all your time spent in fighting this. Disappointingly though, never enough to cause a PPC to think twice about launching exactly the same case against the next unsuspecting victims, most of whom will meekly stump up to avoid court.
By Coupon-mad 18th Jul 17, 11:03 PM
Fantastic, you got £175! Well done!! What a brilliant update!
He also asked her why she had come if they had not expected me to come and said "what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander".
What goes around, comes around. Hahaha!
Witness Statement - Page 3 - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums
By Coupon-mad 17th Jul 17, 8:21 PM
I would not re-do the costs schedule, just take it plus ask for more, based on their conduct. Do not let an Usher tell you to leave, if the case is no longer on the list, insist on 5 minutes with the Judge on the spot (be very polite and no need to mention when you read the discontinuance email nor mention any phone call, play dumb).
By Soddingtypical 17th Jul 17, 8:55 PM
What does PD stand for in loadsofchildren's doc. please?
By Umkomaas 17th Jul 17, 9:02 PM
Haven't gone to the doc, but it's likely to be Practice Direction.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practice_direction
By Lamilad 17th Jul 17, 10:57 PM
Sorry, Lamilad suggesting emailing the judge
"Correct! You should either email the judge ..."
If you were going to email the judge you would send the email to the court FAO: Judge xxxxxx or FAO the presiding judge in claim no.xxxxxxx
You can't email a judge directly. Coupon mad is right - you should try speak to the judge in person if at all possible
By Soddingtypical 18th Jul 17, 3:06 PM
I got costs! An advocate for the other side turned up and approached me before the hearing to say I didn't need to go in and did I accept the discontinuance but I did not engage with her and just said that I wanted to see the judge anyway.
The judge started with the discontinuance and asked if the reason it was being discontinued was because it was pre 2012 and therefore there was no case to bear if I wasn't admitting to being the driver (I wasn't the driver!). The advocate just went along with it and said it was but don't think she even had many details. I think she was expecting not to go into court.
The judge had received my costs schedule and said that he would go through it. He didn't give much away and, at points, seemed like he was veering towards judging against the costs being awarded but systematically went through the costs schedule to which the advocate argued for every point. The judge said that, despite the fact the email had been sent yesterday, that didn't give me enough time to change leave. He wanted proof and I had printed out the email with the time stamp on so that satisfied him. The advocate argued that I couldn't claim for loss of earnings because I could have not come but the ju
dge said that if I had not come, I wouldn't have been able to claim for costs. He also asked her why she had come if they had not expected me to come and said "what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander".
When he got onto the additional costs, he asked why the claim was unreasonable and I stumbled a bit here with nerves but managed to get across that there had never been a case to answer because not only was it pre 2012 which the solicitor knew was pre POFA but also because I had actually bought a ticket. He actually went through the evidence at this point and saw the PDT log and looked a little bit annoyed. He said "there isn't a weak claim that needs strong litigation to win, there is no claim at all to answer" or something very similar. He asked the advocate to comment on it and she said that she had just been told to come to court to discontinue the claim and because "the claim has been discontinued to this is immaterial" or something similar.
Anyway, he awarded me loss of earnings and travel and 3 hours litigant in person. I had claimed for £20 postage, photocopying and printing but he only awarded £5 as he said I hadn't needed to do copies for everyone. A grand total of £175.
Thanks so much everyone for your help. Thanks to Coupon-mad, Lamilad and Umkomaas - really couldn't have done it without you and probably would have just paid up. I'll start a new thread with all the documentation on from beginning to end so other people can use it they want it. I'm very behind with my own work after spending so long on this but will put it up at the end of the week when I removed all personal information from it.
Last edited by Soddingtypical; 18-07-2017 at 3:14 PM.
By Umkomaas 18th Jul 17, 3:12 PM
Great feedback, ST and good you received some costs - but rarely ever enough to cover all your time spent in fighting this. Disappointingly though, never enough to cause a PPC to think twice about launching exactly the same case against the next unsuspecting victims, most of whom will meekly stump up to avoid court.
By Coupon-mad 18th Jul 17, 11:03 PM
Fantastic, you got £175! Well done!! What a brilliant update!
He also asked her why she had come if they had not expected me to come and said "what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander".
What goes around, comes around. Hahaha!