Hermain Cain dies after month long battle with COVID-19 - Page 4 - International Skeptics Forum
31st July 2020, 09:28 AM #121
Just imagine he's a brown kid in a detention center if it bothers you that much.
Jeez, Joe, why would that bother me less?
31st July 2020, 09:28 AM #122
He was most definitely black.
Unless there is another part of that statement you feel is "bull feces"?
It's not that he was black that is relevant. It's that he was following Trump's stupidity and should have known better.
31st July 2020, 09:29 AM #123
Brought it upon himself, did he?
Pretty shaky ground you are on there.
31st July 2020, 09:31 AM #124
You're the only one mentioning his color. He was also wealthy and wilfully stupid.
Last edited by acbytesla; 31st July 2020 at 09:33 AM.
31st July 2020, 09:33 AM #125
What made him Stupid?
31st July 2020, 09:38 AM #126
Last edited by Resume; 31st July 2020 at 09:41 AM.
31st July 2020, 09:38 AM #127
He listened to Trump.
31st July 2020, 09:50 AM #128
He was a "bad" man.
He is prematurely dead.
You (amongst others) are celebrating that fact.
That is, and has been consistently enough evidence on this forum to insinuate (or claim outright) racism on your part,
Nonsense. Had he died through absolutely no fault of his own, or had he been unfairly targetted by cops then you might have a point. As it is, you're comparing apples to oranges and saying you can make cider out of both.
When an unarmed black man dies as a result of unfair racial profiling and someone comes onto the forum to blame the individual in question for "obviously" having done something to instigate the incident even when there is no evidence of such, and indeed there may be evidence that shows that the individual was absolutely in no way instigating the incident and indeed attempted to resolve the incident peacefully, I would say voicing suspicion that this poster may well be racist is fair.
Had George Floyd been waking down the street shooting at random civilians I doubt his death would have generated anywhere near the interest it did. Random thug is killed by police during armed conflict is not a particularly noteworthy story, afterall. However, the fact that he was an unarmed non violent black man who was killed in the latest of a ridiculously long series of similar events over and over again throughout the years makes it such an important issue.
Herman Cain not wearing a mask, ignoring social distancing at an even where most other people weren't wearing masks, and then dying from the disease that is the cause of the social distancing/mask rules has nothing to do with his race. He's just a moron.
Last edited by MarkCorrigan; 31st July 2020 at 09:51 AM.
31st July 2020, 09:56 AM #129
What are you arguing there?
That there are times when the insinuation may be warranted- ergo the assertion is always warranted?
That seems like bad logic.
31st July 2020, 10:03 AM #130
...No? If you're getting that from what I wrote, I would suggest you should try again.
From what I've seen on the forum, it's the same handful of people who are accused of being racist after making posts like the ones I describe in my comment. At least one of them has outright stated he is a racist, and the remaining few I have seen have expressed other racist opinions. By all means, if you find someone accusing you of being a racist unfairly then complain about it. I would suggest that you could even report the comment.
That does not excuse your ridiculolus tu quoque you're attempting here.
31st July 2020, 10:04 AM #131
My guess? Buying into the beliefs of the Republican party under Trump. Sometimes being so wealthy that you are surrounded by yes people can contribute: everyone around you agrees with you so you must be right?
31st July 2020, 10:05 AM #132
Have I expressed a racist opinion in this thread?
31st July 2020, 10:10 AM #133
Echo-chambers have a stultifying effect on rational thinking. I must agree.
31st July 2020, 10:11 AM #134
Did I say you had?
I'm puzzled as to what you think your point is.
People come on and, perhaps distastefully, celebrate the death of a moron due to his own stupidity.
You come on and accuse them of being racist because of some really just awful logical leaps.
People point out that your "gotcha" is noted and pretty weaksauce.
You double down.
I explain with some detail why it's weaksauce.
You seem to accuse me of calling you racist? I'm really not sure what you're trying to do here.
Last edited by MarkCorrigan; 31st July 2020 at 10:31 AM.
31st July 2020, 10:28 AM #135
I just googled "obvious troll is obvious" and the results led me to this thread.
31st July 2020, 10:33 AM #136
not weak at all.
It parodies the arguments made in other threads perfectly. In fact, it was immediately recognized as such by most of those who saw it- the reaction to pointing out the hypocrisy of making the exact arguments that would in any other thread result in charges of racism is to dismiss it as "poppycock" then run away because there is no logical counter. I made my point.
In fact, it only took about 5 posts in this thread to be accused of racism- I asked if you saw it in my posts, did you? or is it just a knee-jerk reaction to being called out?
31st July 2020, 10:34 AM #137
Another well reasoned response. How delightful.
31st July 2020, 10:35 AM #138
Come on now forum members, surely you can't be gobbling down this concern trolling this readily. Are you really going to derail this thread for pages just to argue with this clearly bad faith accusation of racism from someone that doesn't actually care? Let's try to keep this thread on topic, which is:
It's actually very funny and good that Hermann Cain died of Covid.
31st July 2020, 10:40 AM #139
One warning - this thread is not about each other. Drop all the childish bickering and attempts of getting your insults to one another "under the wire". Ignoring this mod box will result in further moderation action which could include warnings, suspensions and bans.
31st July 2020, 10:40 AM #140
Except that it isn't the same argument. As I stated, you are comparing apples to oranges. Pretty clearly.
Is what a knee jerk reaction? Pointing out your argument is so flawed as to be baseless?
31st July 2020, 10:42 AM #141
Deleted. I believe what I typed violates at least the spirit of the mod box posted while I was typing.
Last edited by Babbylonian; 31st July 2020 at 10:44 AM.
31st July 2020, 10:43 AM #142
I never said Cain was a "bad" man.
I never said he was black.
I never said he was prematurely dead.
I am also not "celebrating" his death.
I also don't see others celebrating.
It is you that is suggesting all this.
Cain died because of the COVID virus. That is unfortunate for him and his family.
But it is not wrong or an exaggeration to say that Cain may be alive today had he not followed Trump.
31st July 2020, 10:44 AM #143
The accusation of racism.
31st July 2020, 10:45 AM #144
But I haven't accused you of racism.
31st July 2020, 10:46 AM #145
Cain was stupid. Now he's ten toes up.
I'll say the same about anyone similarly stupid. White, brown, black, red, yellow, green or grey.
I'm an equal opportunity pisser on graves.
Last edited by Lurch; 31st July 2020 at 10:49 AM.
31st July 2020, 10:49 AM #146
I did not say that you had.
How would you characterize post 81?
Inane, I guess?
It's a post making a point I'm not sure is valid very poorly.
31st July 2020, 10:54 AM #147
I'm not big on celebrating the misfortunes of others.
But that doesn't mean I can't notice that some people are actively competing for a Darwin Award.
31st July 2020, 10:58 AM #148
Cain isn't just some random conservative schmuck that died from covid because they took advice from Fox News.
He's a (minor) leader in the movement. He played a role in advocating for this death cult of an ideology. His death by Covid may, in-fact, play a small role in waking up duped conservatives to the danger of the course of action conservative propaganda is advocating.
This isn't just misfortune, this is an arsonist getting consumed by the same fire he started. It's a good outcome.
Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 31st July 2020 at 11:07 AM.
31st July 2020, 11:03 AM #149
Exactly. Even my empathy for the family is attenuated by the fact that if my father or grandfather with similar risk factors acted the same way, I wouldn't stop pressuring him to take every precaution. In fact, I would advise him daily not to leave the house for any reason apart from required medical care.
31st July 2020, 11:14 AM #150
I’m not sure if failure to use a mask should qualify for a Darwin Award. The mask isn’t intended to protect the wearer, so someone refusing to wear on then dyeing from COVID-19 is more of a “got what they deserved” thing than a “done in by their own stupidity” thing.
31st July 2020, 11:14 AM #151
So much for Trump's claims that children (the younger the better) are practically immune to and not spreaders of Covid 19.
In June, a Georgia summer camp had to shut on after children and staff tested positive for the virus. All had arrived at the camp with recent negative test proof. Only the staffers, not the children, wore masks and increased ventilation was not followed. Within a week, a staffer became sick and half the camp attendees were tested again. The positive test percentages:
Ages 6-10: 51% Ages 11-17: 44% Ages 18-21: 33%
31st July 2020, 11:23 AM #152
For Cain, that train left a long time ago. He's got grandkids.
31st July 2020, 11:24 AM #153
It most certainly is. Wearing a mask does not, in any way, protect you from contracting the virus. While I will accept that wearing a mask would have made it more socially acceptable for whoever spread it to wear his or her mask, he could have still caught it following all of the current guidance.
If he only had a meal with his beer, that might have made a difference (CA). Or not drinking after 11 PM, that might have helped (OH).
31st July 2020, 11:27 AM #154
Attending in indoors rally of thousands of people was a massive violation of any reasonable precautions. Even if you accept that masks are not effective (which isn't true), good social distancing protocols means not attending an indoors political rally. Everyone who made the decision to attend that rally is grossly irresponsible.
Im sure Cain isn't the only person who became infected and died because of that rally, but he's the only one high profile enough to notice.
Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 31st July 2020 at 11:30 AM.
31st July 2020, 11:29 AM #155
Given that the current guidance would have included social distancing, mask usage, and not attending political rallies (or any other large gathering, especially where people aren't observing other precautions), I think your speculation is unwarranted. It's clear that he followed none of the "current guidance." He certainly didn't follow the guidance of local Tulsa officials (the mayor) who indicated that the rally he attended should be cancelled.
In fact, given his specific risk factors, I'd bet cash money that the "current guidance" from Cain's doctors would have been to stay the **** in his house.
Last edited by Babbylonian; 31st July 2020 at 11:31 AM.
31st July 2020, 11:29 AM #156
An overly-litigious family member should do contact tracing, figure out how he got it, and then maybe sue the whole chain of command that pulled the social distancing stickers off of the seats in the arena.
ETA - those stickers were part of the "current guidance."
31st July 2020, 11:30 AM #157
Failure, maybe not. Deliberately not and flouting the known science on the other hand.
You are right. The mask does a better job at protecting others than the wearer. Still, Cain attended the Tulsa rally where he knew masks wouldn't be worn. So Cain being in a high risk group placed himself in an environment that was risky. Did he not?
31st July 2020, 11:31 AM #158
And clearly he received the Award.
31st July 2020, 11:48 AM #159
Herman's Been Cained
My suggestion for an alternative thread title.
31st July 2020, 11:49 AM #160
Last edited by Belz...; 31st July 2020 at 11:50 AM.
Hermain Cain dies after month long battle with COVID-19 - Page 4 - International Skeptics Forum
31st July 2020, 09:28 AM #121
Just imagine he's a brown kid in a detention center if it bothers you that much.
Jeez, Joe, why would that bother me less?
31st July 2020, 09:28 AM #122
He was most definitely black.
Unless there is another part of that statement you feel is "bull feces"?
It's not that he was black that is relevant. It's that he was following Trump's stupidity and should have known better.
31st July 2020, 09:29 AM #123
Brought it upon himself, did he?
Pretty shaky ground you are on there.
31st July 2020, 09:31 AM #124
You're the only one mentioning his color. He was also wealthy and wilfully stupid.
Last edited by acbytesla; 31st July 2020 at 09:33 AM.
31st July 2020, 09:33 AM #125
What made him Stupid?
31st July 2020, 09:38 AM #126
Last edited by Resume; 31st July 2020 at 09:41 AM.
31st July 2020, 09:38 AM #127
He listened to Trump.
31st July 2020, 09:50 AM #128
He was a "bad" man.
He is prematurely dead.
You (amongst others) are celebrating that fact.
That is, and has been consistently enough evidence on this forum to insinuate (or claim outright) racism on your part,
Nonsense. Had he died through absolutely no fault of his own, or had he been unfairly targetted by cops then you might have a point. As it is, you're comparing apples to oranges and saying you can make cider out of both.
When an unarmed black man dies as a result of unfair racial profiling and someone comes onto the forum to blame the individual in question for "obviously" having done something to instigate the incident even when there is no evidence of such, and indeed there may be evidence that shows that the individual was absolutely in no way instigating the incident and indeed attempted to resolve the incident peacefully, I would say voicing suspicion that this poster may well be racist is fair.
Had George Floyd been waking down the street shooting at random civilians I doubt his death would have generated anywhere near the interest it did. Random thug is killed by police during armed conflict is not a particularly noteworthy story, afterall. However, the fact that he was an unarmed non violent black man who was killed in the latest of a ridiculously long series of similar events over and over again throughout the years makes it such an important issue.
Herman Cain not wearing a mask, ignoring social distancing at an even where most other people weren't wearing masks, and then dying from the disease that is the cause of the social distancing/mask rules has nothing to do with his race. He's just a moron.
Last edited by MarkCorrigan; 31st July 2020 at 09:51 AM.
31st July 2020, 09:56 AM #129
What are you arguing there?
That there are times when the insinuation may be warranted- ergo the assertion is always warranted?
That seems like bad logic.
31st July 2020, 10:03 AM #130
...No? If you're getting that from what I wrote, I would suggest you should try again.
From what I've seen on the forum, it's the same handful of people who are accused of being racist after making posts like the ones I describe in my comment. At least one of them has outright stated he is a racist, and the remaining few I have seen have expressed other racist opinions. By all means, if you find someone accusing you of being a racist unfairly then complain about it. I would suggest that you could even report the comment.
That does not excuse your ridiculolus tu quoque you're attempting here.
31st July 2020, 10:04 AM #131
My guess? Buying into the beliefs of the Republican party under Trump. Sometimes being so wealthy that you are surrounded by yes people can contribute: everyone around you agrees with you so you must be right?
31st July 2020, 10:05 AM #132
Have I expressed a racist opinion in this thread?
31st July 2020, 10:10 AM #133
Echo-chambers have a stultifying effect on rational thinking. I must agree.
31st July 2020, 10:11 AM #134
Did I say you had?
I'm puzzled as to what you think your point is.
People come on and, perhaps distastefully, celebrate the death of a moron due to his own stupidity.
You come on and accuse them of being racist because of some really just awful logical leaps.
People point out that your "gotcha" is noted and pretty weaksauce.
You double down.
I explain with some detail why it's weaksauce.
You seem to accuse me of calling you racist? I'm really not sure what you're trying to do here.
Last edited by MarkCorrigan; 31st July 2020 at 10:31 AM.
31st July 2020, 10:28 AM #135
I just googled "obvious troll is obvious" and the results led me to this thread.
31st July 2020, 10:33 AM #136
not weak at all.
It parodies the arguments made in other threads perfectly. In fact, it was immediately recognized as such by most of those who saw it- the reaction to pointing out the hypocrisy of making the exact arguments that would in any other thread result in charges of racism is to dismiss it as "poppycock" then run away because there is no logical counter. I made my point.
In fact, it only took about 5 posts in this thread to be accused of racism- I asked if you saw it in my posts, did you? or is it just a knee-jerk reaction to being called out?
31st July 2020, 10:34 AM #137
Another well reasoned response. How delightful.
31st July 2020, 10:35 AM #138
Come on now forum members, surely you can't be gobbling down this concern trolling this readily. Are you really going to derail this thread for pages just to argue with this clearly bad faith accusation of racism from someone that doesn't actually care? Let's try to keep this thread on topic, which is:
It's actually very funny and good that Hermann Cain died of Covid.
31st July 2020, 10:40 AM #139
One warning - this thread is not about each other. Drop all the childish bickering and attempts of getting your insults to one another "under the wire". Ignoring this mod box will result in further moderation action which could include warnings, suspensions and bans.
31st July 2020, 10:40 AM #140
Except that it isn't th
e same argument. As I stated, you are comparing apples to oranges. Pretty clearly.
Is what a knee jerk reaction? Pointing out your argument is so flawed as to be baseless?
31st July 2020, 10:42 AM #141
Deleted. I believe what I typed violates at least the spirit of the mod box posted while I was typing.
Last edited by Babbylonian; 31st July 2020 at 10:44 AM.
31st July 2020, 10:43 AM #142
I never said Cain was a "bad" man.
I never said he was black.
I never said he was prematurely dead.
I am also not "celebrating" his death.
I also don't see others celebrating.
It is you that is suggesting all this.
Cain died because of the COVID virus. That is unfortunate for him and his family.
But it is not wrong or an exaggeration to say that Cain may be alive today had he not followed Trump.
31st July 2020, 10:44 AM #143
The accusation of racism.
31st July 2020, 10:45 AM #144
But I haven't accused you of racism.
31st July 2020, 10:46 AM #145
Cain was stupid. Now he's ten toes up.
I'll say the same about anyone similarly stupid. White, brown, black, red, yellow, green or grey.
I'm an equal opportunity pisser on graves.
Last edited by Lurch; 31st July 2020 at 10:49 AM.
31st July 2020, 10:49 AM #146
I did not say that you had.
How would you characterize post 81?
Inane, I guess?
It's a post making a point I'm not sure is valid very poorly.
31st July 2020, 10:54 AM #147
I'm not big on celebrating the misfortunes of others.
But that doesn't mean I can't notice that some people are actively competing for a Darwin Award.
31st July 2020, 10:58 AM #148
Cain isn't just some random conservative schmuck that died from covid because they took advice from Fox News.
He's a (minor) leader in the movement. He played a role in advocating for this death cult of an ideology. His death by Covid may, in-fact, play a small role in waking up duped conservatives to the danger of the course of action conservative propaganda is advocating.
This isn't just misfortune, this is an arsonist getting consumed by the same fire he started. It's a good outcome.
Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 31st July 2020 at 11:07 AM.
31st July 2020, 11:03 AM #149
Exactly. Even my empathy for the family is attenuated by the fact that if my father or grandfather with similar risk factors acted the same way, I wouldn't stop pressuring him to take every precaution. In fact, I would advise him daily not to leave the house for any reason apart from required medical care.
31st July 2020, 11:14 AM #150
I’m not sure if failure to use a mask should qualify for a Darwin Award. The mask isn’t intended to protect the wearer, so someone refusing to wear on then dyeing from COVID-19 is more of a “got what they deserved” thing than a “done in by their own stupidity” thing.
31st July 2020, 11:14 AM #151
So much for Trump's claims that children (the younger the better) are practically immune to and not spreaders of Covid 19.
In June, a Georgia summer camp had to shut on after children and staff tested positive for the virus. All had arrived at the camp with recent negative test proof. Only the staffers, not the children, wore masks and increased ventilation was not followed. Within a week, a staffer became sick and half the camp attendees were tested again. The positive test percentages:
Ages 6-10: 51% Ages 11-17: 44% Ages 18-21: 33%
31st July 2020, 11:23 AM #152
For Cain, that train left a long time ago. He's got grandkids.
31st July 2020, 11:24 AM #153
It most certainly is. Wearing a mask does not, in any way, protect you from contracting the virus. While I will accept that wearing a mask would have made it more socially acceptable for whoever spread it to wear his or her mask, he could have still caught it following all of the current guidance.
If he only had a meal with his beer, that might have made a difference (CA). Or not drinking after 11 PM, that might have helped (OH).
31st July 2020, 11:27 AM #154
Attending in indoors rally of thousands of people was a massive violation of any reasonable precautions. Even if you accept that masks are not effective (which isn't true), good social distancing protocols means not attending an indoors political rally. Everyone who made the decision to attend that rally is grossly irresponsible.
Im sure Cain isn't the only person who became infected and died because of that rally, but he's the only one high profile enough to notice.
Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 31st July 2020 at 11:30 AM.
31st July 2020, 11:29 AM #155
Given that the current guidance would have included social distancing, mask usage, and not attending political rallies (or any other large gathering, especially where people aren't observing other precautions), I think your speculation is unwarranted. It's clear that he followed none of the "current guidance." He certainly didn't follow the guidance of local Tulsa officials (the mayor) who indicated that the rally he attended should be cancelled.
In fact, given his specific risk factors, I'd bet cash money that the "current guidance" from Cain's doctors would have been to stay the **** in his house.
Last edited by Babbylonian; 31st July 2020 at 11:31 AM.
31st July 2020, 11:29 AM #156
An overly-litigious family member should do contact tracing, figure out how he got it, and then maybe sue the whole chain of command that pulled the social distancing stickers off of the seats in the arena.
ETA - those stickers were part of the "current guidance."
31st July 2020, 11:30 AM #157
Failure, maybe not. Deliberately not and flouting the known science on the other hand.
You are right. The mask does a better job at protecting others than the wearer. Still, Cain attended the Tulsa rally where he knew masks wouldn't be worn. So Cain being in a high risk group placed himself in an environment that was risky. Did he not?
31st July 2020, 11:31 AM #158
And clearly he received the Award.
31st July 2020, 11:48 AM #159
Herman's Been Cained
My suggestion for an alternative thread title.
31st July 2020, 11:49 AM #160
Last edited by Belz...; 31st July 2020 at 11:50 AM.