Another ill informed idiot starts a petition - Page 2 - Cycling UK Forum
Postby karlt » 16 Nov 2016, 9:43am
I'm often given to wonder what underlies the hatred of cyclists amongst some. And I've concluded it's envy.
They see us overtaking the traffic queues. They see that we don't have to pay for fuel (well, not entirely true, cake isn't free), that we're not subject to VED, that our insurance is voluntary and cheap. We're privileged, they're put upon.
So, you might say, why don't they just get a bike? If we're a privileged group, it's a group that can be joined quite cheaply. But this is what they really envy - that we are willing to do it. They know full well they couldn't do it; it'd be too much' effort. They can't imagine riding several miles; we must be super fit. Or bonkers. And that's the point - the envy leads them to make peace with their own unwillingness to lever their fat arses out of the cars by labelling anyone who does so as some kind of loony. Stupid. Ridiculous. And once you've got that negative assumptions about a group, everything bad they do reinforces it, so you get the stereotype that we ignore red lights, ride on pavements and ride in the dark with no lights.
The reason I think this is that I've had people at work complain about the traffic when they only live a few miles away. I suggest they bike. The response makes it quite clear that Satan will be driving to work in a snowplough before they'd even consider it. It's just not What They Do. Anyone who does is a weirdo. And we all know how the mob feels about weirdos.
Postby rmurphy195 » 16 Nov 2016, 9:50am
I was about to add the following comment
"When I learned to drive I was taught to leave AT LEAST 6 foot to the right of any cyclist I was passing, in case the cyclist fell as I went past. Later in life this did happen, I kept a wide berth on appraoch to a cyclist, who was knocked off his bike by a pedestrian. The trained-for gap gave me more room to manouvre to avoid a collision, saving the cyclists life, and my conscience. In the 1st half of the 20th century motor vehicles were the minority on our roads, the majority of people used bikes as thier personal transport-Sunday rides for people in their hundreds. I grew up with bikes, travelling milesfrom home from the age of 10, a shame my children couldn't do the same at that age"
Then I realised I would have to sign the petition to leave the comment - and I didn't want to put my name to such a piece of stupidity!
Postby meic » 16 Nov 2016, 9:53am
I doubt it, more likely they are angry about being temporarily delayed or even inconvenienced by the presence of cyclists.
The logical idea that if not on a bike the other person would be causing a traffic jam with a car is a bit too much for the brain to deal with. Though they also hate other cars who inconvenience or delay them by obeying speed limits, stopping to check observation at stop signs, stopping for red lights and waiting for green lights.
Postby mercalia » 16 Nov 2016, 10:05am
about time that change.org was vetted? certainly the petitioner should be neutered dont want him/her having any offspring
Postby karlt » 16 Nov 2016, 10:05am
meic wrote: KarlT:
I think that's what's behind the close passes and impatient driving, but the underlying cyclist hatred, even when we're going faster than them so can't possibly be holding them up, and all the banging on about road tax and insurance and red lights and ninjas and whatnot. That and the way that if you suggest that they join us they make it abundantly clear they'd never, ever consider riding a bike, makes me think there's something deeper, something about identity, something about how they see themselves and what are and are not acceptable means of transport.
Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2016, 10:23am
karlt wrote: I'm often given to wonder what underlies the hatred of cyclists amongst some. And I've concluded it's envy......
IMO it's a mix of envy and fear,fear that one day they may have to do the same due to climate concerns,banning of cars from towns and cities,increasing motoring costs,bad public transport,you name it.
So the logic of such a mindset is to loathe the people who practice such weird and perverted forms of transport,and when they hear that people actually like riding a bike it makes matters worse in their mind that people actually enjoy what they loathe so much.
The fear of not conforming in UK society is strong,matched only by the fear of exercise
Postby Bmblbzzz » 16 Nov 2016, 10:24am
Dangerous tactic IMO. All votes look like support.
Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2016, 10:28am
It's all part of the class system,deeply embedded into the UK social psyche,and part of the "we're better than that" belief, and so deserve to ride in style,when all the time they know deep down it's all a lie.......
Postby Annoying Twit » 16 Nov 2016, 10:31am
The petition has, I presume, been modified to remove any mention of road tax. It now only mentions insurance.
Postby Psamathe » 16 Nov 2016, 10:53am
Annoying Twit wrote: The petition has, I presume, been modified to remove any mention of road tax. It now only mentions insurance.
I don't like change.org but to allow a petition to be changed after people have signed it seems quite wrong. Allowing changes means people may end-up having signed something they don't agree with.
Postby Annoying Twit » 16 Nov 2016, 10:54am
Psamathe wrote: I don't like change.org but to allow a petition to be changed after people have signed it seems quite wrong. Allowing changes means people may end-up having signed something they don't agree with.
Postby axel_knutt » 16 Nov 2016, 1:12pm
reohn2 wrote: So the logic of such a mindset is to loathe the people who practice such weird and perverted forms of transport........
I think it goes deeper than any conscious logic. When David Eagleman covered empathy in his series on the brain, he showed experiments in which subjects in MRI scanners were shown video of people being harmed. When the victims were neutral the scan showed the brain lighting up as the subjects empathised, but if the subjects were identified as members of an out-group all the empathy totally disappeared and the scans were the same as those from psychopaths.
Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2016, 2:11pm
Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2016, 2:13pm
IMO it's burned deep within the psyche.
Postby jezer » 16 Nov 2016, 2:17pm
Rather like Brexit.....
Another ill informed idiot starts a petition - Page 2 - Cycling UK Forum
Postby karlt » 16 Nov 2016, 9:43am
I'm often given to wonder what underlies the hatred of cyclists amongst some. And I've concluded it's envy.
They see us overtaking the traffic queues. They see that we don't have to pay for fuel (well, not entirely true, cake isn't free), that we're not subject to VED, that our insurance is voluntary and cheap. We're privileged, they're put upon.
So, you might say, why don't they just get a bike? If we're a privileged group, it's a group that can be joined quite cheaply. But this is what they really envy - that we are willing to do it. They know full well they couldn't do it; it'd be too much' effort. They can't imagine riding several miles; we must be super fit. Or bonkers. And that's the point - the envy leads them to make peace with their own unwillingness to lever their fat arses out of the cars by labelling anyone who does so as some kind of loony. Stupid. Ridiculous. And once you've got that negative assumptions about a group, everything bad they do reinforces it, so you get the stereotype that we ignore red lights, ride on pavements and ride in the dark with no lights.
The reason I think this is that I've had people at work complain about the traffic when they only live a few miles away. I suggest they bike. The response makes it quite clear that Satan will be driving to work in a snowplough before they'd even consider it. It's just not What They Do. Anyone who does is a weirdo. And we all know how the mob feels about weirdos.
Postby rmurphy195 » 16 Nov 2016, 9:50am
I was about to add the following comment
"When I learned to drive I was taught to leave AT LEAST 6 foot to the right of any cyclist I was passing, in case the cyclist fell as I went past. Later in life this did happen, I kept a wide berth on appraoch to a cyclist, who was knocked off his bike by a pedestrian. The trained-for gap gave me more room to manouvre to avoid a collision, saving the cyclists life, and my conscience. In the 1st half of the 20th century motor vehicles were the minority on our roads, the majority of people used bikes as thier personal transport-Sunday rides for people in their hundreds. I grew up with bikes, travelling milesfrom home from the age of 10, a shame my children couldn't do the same at that age"
Then I realised I would have to sign the petition to leave the comment - and I didn't want to put my name to such a piece of stupidity!
Postby meic » 16 Nov 2016, 9:53am
I doubt it, more likely they are angry about being temporarily delayed or even inconvenienced by the presence of cyclists.
The logical idea that if not on a bike the other person would be causing a traffic jam with a car is a bit too much for the brain to deal with. Though they also hate other cars who inconvenience or delay them by obeying speed limits, stopping to check observation at stop signs, stopping for red lights and waiting for green lights.
Postby mercalia » 16 Nov 2016, 10:05am
about time that change.org was vetted? certainly the petitioner should be neutered dont want him/her having any offspring
Postby karlt » 16 Nov 2016, 10:05am
meic wrote: KarlT:
I think 
that's what's behind the close passes and impatient driving, but the underlying cyclist hatred, even when we're going faster than them so can't possibly be holding them up, and all the banging on about road tax and insurance and red lights and ninjas and whatnot. That and the way that if you suggest that they join us they make it abundantly clear they'd never, ever consider riding a bike, makes me think there's something deeper, something about identity, something about how they see themselves and what are and are not acceptable means of transport.
Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2016, 10:23am
karlt wrote: I'm often given to wonder what underlies the hatred of cyclists amongst some. And I've concluded it's envy......
IMO it's a mix of envy and fear,fear that one day they may have to do the same due to climate concerns,banning of cars from towns and cities,increasing motoring costs,bad public transport,you name it.
So the logic of such a mindset is to loathe the people who practice such weird and perverted forms of transport,and when they hear that people actually like riding a bike it makes matters worse in their mind that people actually enjoy what they loathe so much.
The fear of not conforming in UK society is strong,matched only by the fear of exercise
Postby Bmblbzzz » 16 Nov 2016, 10:24am
Dangerous tactic IMO. All votes look like support.
Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2016, 10:28am
It's all part of the class system,deeply embedded into the UK social psyche,and part of the "we're better than that" belief, and so deserve to ride in style,when all the time they know deep down it's all a lie.......
Postby Annoying Twit » 16 Nov 2016, 10:31am
The petition has, I presume, been modified to remove any mention of road tax. It now only mentions insurance.
Postby Psamathe » 16 Nov 2016, 10:53am
Annoying Twit wrote: The petition has, I presume, been modified to remove any mention of road tax. It now only mentions insurance.
I don't like change.org but to allow a petition to be changed after people have signed it seems quite wrong. Allowing changes means people may end-up having signed something they don't agree with.
Postby Annoying Twit » 16 Nov 2016, 10:54am
Psamathe wrote: I don't like change.org but to allow a petition to be changed after people have signed it seems quite wrong. Allowing changes means people may end-up having signed something they don't agree with.
Postby axel_knutt » 16 Nov 2016, 1:12pm
reohn2 wrote: So the logic of such a mindset is to loathe the people who practice such weird and perverted forms of transport........
I think it goes deeper than any conscious logic. When David Eagleman covered empathy in his series on the brain, he showed experiments in which subjects in MRI scanners were shown video of people being harmed. When the victims were neutral the scan showed the brain lighting up as the subjects empathised, but if the subjects were identified as members of an out-group all the empathy totally disappeared and the scans were the same as those from psychopaths.
Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2016, 2:11pm
Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2016, 2:13pm
IMO it's burned deep within the psyche.
Postby jezer » 16 Nov 2016, 2:17pm
Rather like Brexit.....