Reason for quiet optimism? [Archive] - AFA Forums
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Loki22nd March 2011, 05:54 PMThe BBC reports (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197) a study showing that in countries which ask the religion question in their census (censuses, censi?), mathematics suggests religion may be heading for extinction.
Those crazy mathematicians. :rolleyes:
wolty22nd March 2011, 05:59 PMWas going to post this but you beat me to it.:p
Mister Pervert22nd March 2011, 06:22 PMThe BBC reports (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197) a study showing that in countries which ask the religion question in their census (censuses, censi?), mathematics suggests religion may be heading for extinction.
Not that I'm one of them (in the "arithmetic" sense of math). But yeah - creativity exists in that corner of craziness :D
Loki22nd March 2011, 06:39 PMNot that I'm one of them (in the "arithmetic" sense of math). But yeah - creativity exists in that corner of craziness :D
I particularly like when people repeat the old "true proofs are only found in mathematics" but neglect to add "but are of course entirely dependent on the assumptions used and perfectly good mathematical proofs may be entirely fallacious when applied to reality".
Sieveboy22nd March 2011, 08:55 PMI particularly like when people repeat the old "true proofs are only found in mathematics" but neglect to add "but are of course entirely dependent on the assumptions used and perfectly good mathematical proofs may be entirely fallacious when applied to reality".
Can I say that they refer to "Nonlinear dynamics" which looks more like a statistical analysis technique rather than mathematic technique (not that they aren't related). See here (http://sic.ici.ro/sic2001_3/art6.htm) is the ISBN entry on a book about this subject.
djarm6722nd March 2011, 09:17 PMDon't go near math-a-matiks. It's the devil.
Worldslaziestbusker23rd March 2011, 06:49 AMhttp://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/extrapolating.pngI particularly like when people repeat the old "true proofs are only found in mathematics" but neglect to add "but are of course entirely dependent on the assumptions used and perfectly good mathematical proofs may be entirely fallacious when applied to reality".
Dammit, I can never find the XKCD I need without a lengthy (but fun) search through the archive. In this case, I was looking for the one where someone graphed out the number of wives a person had over time and forecast forward from the wedding night with alarming predictions. It doesn't really work in text form. Huge assumptions fed into a statistical model that has only shown merit in analysing binary state systems where the utility of one choice over another is readily quantified. I think these punters have gone the long way round to telling us something we already know - religious adherence in the countries studied is in a state of downward flux. The conclusion that it will run to extinction rather than find a lower energy equilibrium doesn't convince me as it analyses the pattern while ignoring the system drivers, which were glossed over in the initial assumptions rather unconvincingly.
That XKCD with the scientists standing in order of credibility would be useful at this point.
Mister Pervert23rd March 2011, 11:39 PMI particularly like when people repeat the old "true proofs are only found in mathematics" but neglect to add "but are of course entirely dependent on the assumptions used and perfectly good mathematical proofs may be entirely fallacious when applied to reality".
Read, Loki, read! :D
Pimping another thread... (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=9481)
Loki24th March 2011, 05:13 PMI remember reading a book by an unremembered author a long time ago about Complexity (in the sense of chaos theory) and agree it's staggering where the imagination can go if allowed and the breadth of phenomena maths can model if given a good footing. To quite a large extent that book pushed my developing awareness of the universe, and in fascinating directions all of which were rewarding.
As to the bits with poor assumptions or which otherwise don't model reality well, I'd be the last to say such pursuits are pointless. There's beauty and elegance in good maths, even if I am illiterate in much of it.
DanDare24th March 2011, 05:56 PMI particularly like when people repeat the old "true proofs are only found in mathematics" but neglect to add "but are of course entirely dependent on the assumptions used and perfectly good mathematical proofs may be entirely fallacious when applied to reality*".
* and may contain nuts.
Reason for quiet optimism? [Archive] - AFA Forums
AFA Forums > Atheism > General Chit Chat About Atheism > Reason for quiet optimism?
View Full Version : Reason for quiet optimism?
Loki22nd March 2011, 05:54 PMThe BBC reports (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197) a study showing that in countries which ask the religion question in their census (censuses, censi?), mathematics suggests religion may be heading for extinction.
Those crazy mathematicians. :rolleyes:
wolty22nd March 2011, 05:59 PMWas going to post this but you beat me to it.:p
Mister Pervert22nd March 2011, 06:22 PMThe BBC reports (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197) a study showing that in countries which ask the religion question in their census (censuses, censi?), mathematics suggests religion may be heading for extinction.
Not that I'm one of them (in the "arithmetic" sense of math). But yeah - creativity exists in that corner of craziness :D
Loki22nd March 2011, 06:39 PMNot that I'm one of them (in the "arithmetic" sense of math). But yeah - creativity exists in that corner of craziness :D
I particularly like when people repeat the old "true proofs are only found in mathematics" but neglect to add "but are of course entirely dependent on the assumptions used and perfectly good mathematical proofs may be entirely fallacious when applied to reality".
Sieveboy22nd March 2011, 08:55 PMI particularly like when people repeat the old "true proofs are only found in mathematics" but neglect to add "but are of course entirely dependent on the assumptions used and perfectly good mathematical proofs may be entirely fallacious when applied to reality".
Can I say that they refer to "Nonlinear dynamics" which looks more like a statistical analysis technique rather than mathematic technique (not that they aren't related). See here (http://sic.ici.ro/sic2001_3/art6.htm) is the ISBN entry on a book about this subject.
djarm6722nd March 2011, 09:17 PMDon't go near math-a-matiks. It's the devil.
Worldslaziestbusker23rd March 2011, 06:49 AMhttp://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/extrapolating.pngI particularly like when people repeat the old "true proofs are only found in mathematics" but neglect to add "but are of course entirely dependent on the assumptions used and perfectly good mathematical proofs may be entirely fallacious when applied to reality".
Da
mmit, I can never find the XKCD I need without a lengthy (but fun) search through the archive. In this case, I was looking for the one where someone graphed out the number of wives a person had over time and forecast forward from the wedding night with alarming predictions. It doesn't really work in text form. Huge assumptions fed into a statistical model that has only shown merit in analysing binary state systems where the utility of one choice over another is readily quantified. I think these punters have gone the long way round to telling us something we already know - religious adherence in the countries studied is in a state of downward flux. The conclusion that it will run to extinction rather than find a lower energy equilibrium doesn't convince me as it analyses the pattern while ignoring the system drivers, which were glossed over in the initial assumptions rather unconvincingly.
That XKCD with the scientists standing in order of credibility would be useful at this point.
Mister Pervert23rd March 2011, 11:39 PMI particularly like when people repeat the old "true proofs are only found in mathematics" but neglect to add "but are of course entirely dependent on the assumptions used and perfectly good mathematical proofs may be entirely fallacious when applied to reality".
Read, Loki, read! :D
Pimping another thread... (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=9481)
Loki24th March 2011, 05:13 PMI remember reading a book by an unremembered author a long time ago about Complexity (in the sense of chaos theory) and agree it's staggering where the imagination can go if allowed and the breadth of phenomena maths can model if given a good footing. To quite a large extent that book pushed my developing awareness of the universe, and in fascinating directions all of which were rewarding.
As to the bits with poor assumptions or which otherwise don't model reality well, I'd be the last to say such pursuits are pointless. There's beauty and elegance in good maths, even if I am illiterate in much of it.
DanDare24th March 2011, 05:56 PMI particularly like when people repeat the old "true proofs are only found in mathematics" but neglect to add "but are of course entirely dependent on the assumptions used and perfectly good mathematical proofs may be entirely fallacious when applied to reality*".
* and may contain nuts.