White March - Why Start Midgame ? - Page 3 - Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS) - Obsidian Forum Community
Hey, some of us bought the expansion three years before the game was released.
Ridiculously low. Like, 1 in 10.
and that's not really a surprise, looking at my Steam Library there's a significant portion of games I've never even started up, let alone completed it. (damn you, Steam Sales and your bargains)
Edited September 7, 2015 by Psychevore
The Steam stats for this game don't tell the whole story because they can't--the Steam version of PoE/WM is DRM-free (just like the GOG version) and Steam is not required to run in order to play the game directly from the PoE exectuable (Witcher 3 is the same.) When you don't run Steam and launch the game from the Library "play" button, then you cannot update the game (until you run Steam), your Achievements do not tally at all, and the Steam gametime chronometer stops counting your game time. For instance, the Steam clock says I have 4 hours in the game, the internal PoE game timer puts me at 80+ hours... Obviously, if the game is finished when Steam isn't running then the game completion won't tally at all through Steam. Some people for some reason don't seem to understand that the Steam game clock & Steam Achievements are a part of *Steam*--not the game. They sort of bolt this stuff onto the games that they sell through Steam.
I doubt there'll ever be a time I would look forward to replaying Pillars of the eternal loading screens Especially when many months after release, after patch 2.0, a patch comes out that supposedly increases the speed of loading.. hah....
I hope Obsidian starts working on a real RPG now. PoE 2 that is. Not expansions for a game I can't even be bribed to replay ;P
And so I have to admit.. for me these 2 expansion "parts" are a pass. As I have no interest in replaying PoE proper which seems to be required to properly enjoy this expansion.... scaling enemies up is possible I know.. but what is the point of that when I have the best loot in the game already? Only thing combat is good for is loot. And if that falls away, you have a lot of very boring engagements.... oh well I hope Obsidian makes enough money with their tank pay to win title to actually fund the "real" PoE 2
I'm very dissapointed to read White March starts mid game...makes no sense to me. Most of you finished to game already...
Now I'm faced with stupid decisions, wait for all DLC to appear (it's DLC not addon) and have the full fun or start a game and wait for it to finish in pieces...
Well I decided to wait. Full content, cheaper, less bugs.
What's your oppinion about it ?
I have the same feeling for most games released today...
Exactly, PoE is not one of those games worth playing twice. Unlike BG2 which I must have completed 7 times since it was released.
* You want PoE2, but hate PoE1 (cluster**** #1).
* What's the point of playing a RPG if you have the best loot? (cluster**** #2) HECK, THE STORY MAYBE? I can honestly admit I didn't even glanced much at the loot I've gotten during the expansion. So what? Why care about that so much? This is a CRPG not an ARPG where loot is pretty much the only point worth playing. Here's it's mostly to forfill it's roll, it's rather unimportant overall.
* "only thing combat is good for is loot" (cluster**** #3). Whaaaaaat?
* "You have a lot of very boring engagements". Hello. Story? This isn't Pillars of Diablo. In true tradiation a lot of encounters come with a pre-combat boatload of text. So it's hardly what you claim this game is.
Please do us a favour, buy Diablo III rather than putting your ARPG stamp on PoE2. Please?
# You want PoE2, but hate PoE1
Yeah, what's so odd about that? BG2 is also vastly superior to BG1... and the expansion for BG1 sucked so badly it was universally panned as "not-existing" by fans. There is a high chance PoE2 would become an actually good RPG if it had slightly higher budget and better tuned combat systems. I'd never replay BG1 either, and I do not hate PoE1, I just don't want to EVER replay it
# What's the point of playing a RPG if you have the best loot? HECK, THE STORY MAYBE? I can honestly admit I didn't even glanced much at the loot I've gotten during the expansion. So what? Why care about that so much? This is a CRPG not an ARPG where loot is pretty much the only point worth playing. Here's it's mostly to forfill it's roll, it's rather unimportant overall.
Well, you did say you were confused so your reply certainly fits that. I am talking about *replaying* PoE to experience Whitemarch as it was meant. There is ZERO interesting story to be gained from replaying PoE just to get to Whitemarch part 1. Only a ton of extremely boring and mandatory combat to level up. So why care about loot? Because to me boring filler combat is boring as hell, without decent random loot, it is twice as boring. Worse, the combat and story to reach Whitemarch is not just boring, it is mandatory (due to levels and linear progression) and it already was bad enough having to play that part of the game more than once. Worse, if I go there with my lvl 12 end-game party, I can breeze through the content no doubt with zero challenge unless they employ some insane cheaty level scaling. Challenging combat is a major factor for me to enjoy an RPG with combat. But I can't do that. My end-game save is gone Only thing I still have is stuff from the bug hunt for the savegame bloat. (So yeah, I did not save in steam cloud.. shame one me ,p)
# "only thing combat is good for is loot" (cluster**** #3). Whaaaaaat?
Yeah, on replaying games, imagine that.. I don't actually care about the story all that much anymore when I already experienced it. The only reason I would fight a filler fight in an RPG on a replay is if the combat were actually fun or there is loot to be had I didn't yet have. In PoE, combat is a MESSY chore, and loot is relegated to specific fights (specific fights in the paths). And worse, I don't care for the 2 new companions. I read their synopsis and looked at Codex reviews.. I simply don't want them in my party. On a replay my party would be 100% hand-crafted. And the 2 new levels don't give me any unique skills or abilities, just more points and 1 or 2 "old" abilities I didn't pick for very good reasons. So leveling up to 14 or 12 or 10 doesn't even matter. There is no demi-god "shift" in skills when you reach level 20 like in DnD
# "You have a lot of very boring engagements". Hello. Story? This isn't Pillars of Diablo. In true tradiation a lot of encounters come with a pre-combat boatload of text. So it's hardly what you claim this game is.
Yeah sure, and that text was interesting.. the FIRST time. On a replay the boatload of text becomes a hindrance and a game is much more depending on it's core gameplay. (funnily, Diablo 3 has better core gameplay when it comes to combat ,p)
Maybe to ease your confusion here is what I meant, in TL;DR
PoE is horribly boring to replay just to reach level 5-8 for Whitemarch part 1 because not everyone has end-game saves that are not bugged to all hell (or flat out gone)
Edited September 10, 2015 by eRe4s3r
BG1 was a ground breaking RPG when it came out and there are in fact people who prefer the sensible lower level play of BG1 to BG2s over the top mageling free for all. I don't recall those of us who were there before ToTSC was released (as opposed to playing years later) panning anything of the sort -
Durlags Tower was an epic adventure and so were other major portions of the expansion and I seem to recall that most people were pleased at the time that they could choose to play the expansion areas as they wished over the course of the campaign.
Of course that was also a time when most RPG fans tended to do multiple playthroughs both to try out the numerous teams that could be put together with 25 companions available as well as different main classes and alignments and when they tired of that they could build their own teams in MP and then switch to SP - in fact some of us are STILL replaying the game on occasion just because we can.
I have high hopes that this franchise may continue to grow in that manner as well.
I think Rpg gamer today prefer Witcher 3/Fallout 3 style budget, openworld and scope - which is an awesome scale and experience true, but it also seems to leave them with rather unrealistic expectations when playing indie games with a fraction of the budget, actual people working on it and scope.
Or at least I've noticed said trend with newcomers here and on the RPG codex, that everything needs to be interwoven and open to player agency. If a game in any way doesn't conform to player agency or story reactivity, they tend to get a bit upset. Which again, is fair - it's just that the old kinda games were not really like that, or catered to that audience.
The critique against trashmobs and boring fights however is more valid I think, as that was a pretty integrate part of BG, Icewind Dale and the other games PoE took inspiration from. It is however Obz main weakness in my opinion and I don't think they are gonna get much better at it.
Heh, I still care about KOTOR2's story even on the 50th playthrough. If I didn't well... who in their right mind would play KOTOR2 for it's combat.
But I can understand not wanting to play it again numbercrunching min-maxing and with a team of purely tuned super-heroes. Heck, I wouldn't want to play the game like that once...
Also for an universually rejected XP I seem to see a LOT of Durlags Tower love, a lot of it on these forums too. Actually Durlag is better than Watcher's Keep was the unanimous agreement I think.
White March - Why Start Midgame ? - Page 3 - Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS) - Obsidian Forum Community
Hey, some of us bought the expansion three years before the game was released.
Ridiculously low. Like, 1 in 10.
and that's not really a surprise, looking at my Steam Library there's a significant portion of games I've never even started up, let alone completed it. (damn you, Steam Sales and your bargains)
Edited September 7, 2015 by Psychevore
The Steam stats for this game don't tell the whole story because they can't--the Steam version of PoE/WM is DRM-free (just like the GOG version) and Steam is not required to run in order to play the game directly from the PoE exectuable (Witcher 3 is the same.) When you don't run Steam and launch the game from the Library "play" button, then you cannot update the game (until you run Steam), your Achievements do not tally at all, and the Steam gametime chronometer stops counting your game time. For instance, the Steam clock says I have 4 hours in the game, the internal PoE game timer puts me at 80+ hours... Obviously, if the game is finished when Steam isn't running then the game completion won't tally at all through Steam. Some people for some reason don't seem to understand that the Steam game clock & Steam Achievements are a part of *Steam*--not the game. They sort of bolt this stuff onto the games that they sell through Steam.
I doubt there'll ever be a time I would look forward to replaying Pillars of the eternal loading screens Especially when many months after release, after patch 2.0, a patch comes out that supposedly increases the speed of loading.. hah....
I hope Obsidian starts working on a real RPG now. PoE 2 that is. Not expansions for a game I can't even be bribed to replay ;P
And so I have to admit.. for me these 2 expansion "parts" are a pass. As I have no interest in replaying PoE proper which seems to be required to properly enjoy this expansion.... scaling enemies up is possible I know.. but what is the point of that when I have the best loot in the game already? Only thing combat is good for is loot. And if that falls away, you have a lot of very boring engagements.... oh well I hope Obsidian makes enough money with their tank pay to win title to actually fund the "real" PoE 2
I'm very dissapointed to read White March starts mid game...makes no sense to me. Most of you finished to game already...
Now I'm faced with stupid decisions, wait for all DLC to appear (it's DLC not addon) and have the full fun or start a game and wait for it to finish in pieces...
Well I decided to wait. Full content, cheaper, less bugs.
What's your oppinion about it ?
I have the same feeling for most games released today...
Exactly, PoE is not one of those games worth playing twice. Unlike BG2 which I must have completed 7 times since it was released.
* You want PoE2, but hate PoE1 (cluster**** #1).
* What's the point of playing a RPG if you have the best loot? (cluster**** #2) HECK, THE STORY MAYBE? I can honestly admit I didn't even glanced much at the loot I've gotten during the expansion. So what? Why care about that so much? This is a CRPG not an ARPG where loot is pretty much the only point worth playing. Here's it's mostly to forfill it's roll, it's rather unimportant overall.
* "only thing combat is good for is loot" (cluster**** #3). Whaaaaaat?
* "You have a lot of very boring engagements". Hello. Story? This isn't Pillars of Diablo. In true tradiation a lot of encounters come with a pre-combat boatload of text. So it's hardly what you claim this game is.
Please do us a favour, buy Diablo III rather than putting your ARPG stamp on PoE2. Please?
# You want PoE2, but hate PoE1
Yeah, what's so odd about that? BG2 is also vastly superior to BG1... and the expansion for BG1 sucked so badly it was universally panned as "not-existing" by fans. There is a high chance PoE2 would become an actually good RPG if it had slightly higher budget and better tuned combat systems. I'd never replay BG1 either, and I do not hate PoE1, I just don't want to EVER replay it
# What's the point of playing a RPG if you have the best loot? HECK, THE STORY MAYBE? I can honestly admit I didn't even glanced much at the loot I've gotten during the expansion. So what? Why care about that so much? This is a CRPG not an ARPG where loot is pretty much the only point worth playing. Here's it's mostly to forfill it's roll, it's rather unimportant overall.
Well, you did say you were confused so your reply certainly fits that. I am talking about *replaying* PoE to experience Whitemarch as it was meant. There is ZERO interesting story to be gained from replaying PoE just to get to Whitemarch part 1. Only a ton of extremely boring and mandatory combat to level up. So why care about loot? Because to me boring filler combat is 
boring as hell, without decent random loot, it is twice as boring. Worse, the combat and story to reach Whitemarch is not just boring, it is mandatory (due to levels and linear progression) and it already was bad enough having to play that part of the game more than once. Worse, if I go there with my lvl 12 end-game party, I can breeze through the content no doubt with zero challenge unless they employ some insane cheaty level scaling. Challenging combat is a major factor for me to enjoy an RPG with combat. But I can't do that. My end-game save is gone Only thing I still have is stuff from the bug hunt for the savegame bloat. (So yeah, I did not save in steam cloud.. shame one me ,p)
# "only thing combat is good for is loot" (cluster**** #3). Whaaaaaat?
Yeah, on replaying games, imagine that.. I don't actually care about the story all that much anymore when I already experienced it. The only reason I would fight a filler fight in an RPG on a replay is if the combat were actually fun or there is loot to be had I didn't yet have. In PoE, combat is a MESSY chore, and loot is relegated to specific fights (specific fights in the paths). And worse, I don't care for the 2 new companions. I read their synopsis and looked at Codex reviews.. I simply don't want them in my party. On a replay my party would be 100% hand-crafted. And the 2 new levels don't give me any unique skills or abilities, just more points and 1 or 2 "old" abilities I didn't pick for very good reasons. So leveling up to 14 or 12 or 10 doesn't even matter. There is no demi-god "shift" in skills when you reach level 20 like in DnD
# "You have a lot of very boring engagements". Hello. Story? This isn't Pillars of Diablo. In true tradiation a lot of encounters come with a pre-combat boatload of text. So it's hardly what you claim this game is.
Yeah sure, and that text was interesting.. the FIRST time. On a replay the boatload of text becomes a hindrance and a game is much more depending on it's core gameplay. (funnily, Diablo 3 has better core gameplay when it comes to combat ,p)
Maybe to ease your confusion here is what I meant, in TL;DR
PoE is horribly boring to replay just to reach level 5-8 for Whitemarch part 1 because not everyone has end-game saves that are not bugged to all hell (or flat out gone)
Edited September 10, 2015 by eRe4s3r
BG1 was a ground breaking RPG when it came out and there are in fact people who prefer the sensible lower level play of BG1 to BG2s over the top mageling free for all. I don't recall those of us who were there before ToTSC was released (as opposed to playing years later) panning anything of the sort -
Durlags Tower was an epic adventure and so were other major portions of the expansion and I seem to recall that most people were pleased at the time that they could choose to play the expansion areas as they wished over the course of the campaign.
Of course that was also a time when most RPG fans tended to do multiple playthroughs both to try out the numerous teams that could be put together with 25 companions available as well as different main classes and alignments and when they tired of that they could build their own teams in MP and then switch to SP - in fact some of us are STILL replaying the game on occasion just because we can.
I have high hopes that this franchise may continue to grow in that manner as well.
I think Rpg gamer today prefer Witcher 3/Fallout 3 style budget, openworld and scope - which is an awesome scale and experience true, but it also seems to leave them with rather unrealistic expectations when playing indie games with a fraction of the budget, actual people working on it and scope.
Or at least I've noticed said trend with newcomers here and on the RPG codex, that everything needs to be interwoven and open to player agency. If a game in any way doesn't conform to player agency or story reactivity, they tend to get a bit upset. Which again, is fair - it's just that the old kinda games were not really like that, or catered to that audience.
The critique against trashmobs and boring fights however is more valid I think, as that was a pretty integrate part of BG, Icewind Dale and the other games PoE took inspiration from. It is however Obz main weakness in my opinion and I don't think they are gonna get much better at it.
Heh, I still care about KOTOR2's story even on the 50th playthrough. If I didn't well... who in their right mind would play KOTOR2 for it's combat.
But I can understand not wanting to play it again numbercrunching min-maxing and with a team of purely tuned super-heroes. Heck, I wouldn't want to play the game like that once...
Also for an universually rejected XP I seem to see a LOT of Durlags Tower love, a lot of it on these forums too. Actually Durlag is better than Watcher's Keep was the unanimous agreement I think.