Caron's Musings: Eggs won't make fascists go away
I think Nick Griffin is an odious little fascist who expresses opinions that have no place in a civilised society as I said in this post yesterday
Several bloggers, including Charlotte who agrees with me that no platforming the BNP is not helping and James, who used the term scum and idiots where I used thugs and the alienated angry. They pretty much mean the same thing, though!
Today the vile Griffin was pelted with eggs as he held a press conference outside Parliament. However old (and smelly) or foreign (the irony) the eggs might have been, all that sort of stunt does is make him into a hero in the eyes of the more thuggish elements of his followers. Even if he were pelted with every egg or rotten vegetable in the country every time he stepped outside his front door, it's not going to make him go away and it just gives him potentially sympathetic publicity. If you actually let him stand there and speak, sooner or later he's going to take the rope that's offered and hang himself.
It's fine to protest against him, but ugly, violent confrontational scenes are simply not going to help. Unfortunately, it's not just the fascists who have thugs on their side. I remember being spat at by an angry Trot at an NUS conference once because she took exception to something I said.
Labels: BNP Fascists Nick Griffin
Agreed Caron. It makes people think "Oh he must have something interesting to say if people want to stop him so much". He becomes a sort of martyr. Ridiculous. As you say he needs to be given rope to hang himself. Nicky Campbell interviewed him very well Ron Radio Five Live yesterday. Campbell was extremely laid back and gentle in his probing - which I think is the right way to do it. The best interview to expose Griffin is not a Paxo stuffing, but a Sir David Frost laid back style interview, getting Griffin to relax and thereby spew out his utter nonsense.
If you're looking for easy and relaxed interviewing, let's see him on Andrew Marr on Sunday, after the easy ride he gave Mandelson.
Only thing is, only political obsessives like us watch these programmes - he needs to be on things that the same people who read the Sun and the Star watch - and the first time he makes the slightest mistake, it'll be on You Tube forever more.
Kezia Dugdale, a Labour blogger, has written a good piece for Labourlist on how to engage with the BNP's sympathisers - to go to where they're at and not spout out the normal arrogant Labour rubbish (my words, not her's). It's here.http://www.labourlist.org/scunnered_kezia_dugdale
The point to note about this was that it was orchestrated by United Against Fascism which is dominated by Socialist Action and the Socialist Workers Party. The latter, in particular, has in the past had similar cross-over with gun-running for Irish Republican terror groups as the BNP has had with Combat18.
This is simply street-thuggery, a la Squadism, by a groupuscle which achieved much less of the vote on Thursday than the BNP. What democratic mandate do they have?
Ou of interest, Caron, what did you say to upset the trot so?
I'll grant you that it was controversial but I spoke against an amendment to a motion that would have allowed termination of pregnancy on demand right up until the due date. I'm definitely pro-choice on these things, but I felt that was going a bit far.
Interestingly that motion failed and my speech was otherwise well received.
Later that conference this poor guy was going to get thrown out for daring to chat up one of the Trot women in one of the bars. He didn't act inappropriately in any way, but apparently his crime was to assume that she wasn't a lesbian. It was the sort of thing that gives feminism a bad name and his friends asked me to speak up for him to the Conference. That was scary, but he was allowed to stay in the end.
Yeah, Trots can be highly prudish at times (as seen with stories of sexual regimentalism under their heroes, Trotsky and Stalin). That said, there's anecdotal evidence to suggest that the reason the SWP inner sanctum remained almost cultish over the decades was the propensitiy for members to share each other's beds. Tony Cliff is reputed to have quipped once, "carry on f*ck*ng comrades!".
Back in 2003, Lindsey German - who, according to wiki, have written two books on women - stated that, although she supported women's and gay rights in Muslim-majority states, she was "not prepared to have them as a shibboleth". This, and the response Craig Murray received at the recent StWC AGM to a his remark about Jacquie Smith suggests there may be some shibboleths left.
Well, I'm not sure I agree with Craig's comments about coal carrying and equating that to the exploitation that is prostitution. Most prostitutes have dangers and violence from pimps and drug dealers to cope with as well as the nature of their job. I don't think many choose it as a good career option after watching Secret Diary of a Call Girl.
I only checked your blog out today and discovered you're a fellow highlander - although Wick and Thurso might as well have been on separate planets:-). I haven't been back in Caithness since '92 but I keep in touch with what's happening up there via friends caithness.org and the like.
Murray's been diagnosed both with bi-polar and sexual hyperactivity. The former would go a long way to explaining his sense of diplomacy whilst Ambassador; the latter his amorous exploits whilst Ambassador, as well as his decision to make the remark on the podium and the one about coal.
His bemused reaction to such remarks makes for amusement amongst otherwise odd politics. D'you know that Steve Coogan has been touted to play him in a film? That'll be perfect!
Still, I do have some sympathy for his bemused reaction to the vitriol he received; when one considers the political forces the StWC has been keen to allign itself with.
Aye, I'm in Thurso, although I went the opposite direction to you in 1992. I found your blog through the archive section of Caithness.org, but have long given up on the forums. I've been around the block a few times on t'Interweb - some energy-draining political sites - and can say, hand on heart, that the atmosphere in the forums is one of the nastiest and most unpredictable I have ever witnessed.
Caron's Musings: Eggs won't make fascists go away
I think Nick Griffin is an odious little fascist who expresses opinions that have no place in a civilised society as I said in this post yesterday
Several bloggers, including Charlotte who agrees with me that no platforming the BNP is not helping and James, who used the term scum and idiots where I used thugs and the alienated angry. They pretty much mean the same thing, though!
Today the vile Griffin was pelted with eggs as he held a press conference outside Parliament. However old (and smelly) or foreign (the irony) the eggs might have been, all that sort of stunt does is make him into a hero in the eyes of the more thuggish elements of his followers. Even if he were pelted with every egg or rotten vegetable in the country every time he stepped outside his front door, it's not going to make him go away and it just gives him potentially sympathetic publicity. If you actually let him stand there and speak, sooner or later he's going to take the rope that's offered and hang himself.
It's fine to protest against him, but ugly, violent confrontational scenes are simply not going to help. Unfortunately, it's not just the fascists who have thugs on their side. I remember being spat at by an angry Trot at an NUS conference once because she took exception to something I said.
Labels: BNP Fascists Nick Griffin
Agreed Caron. It makes people think "Oh he must have something interesting to say if people want to stop him so much". He becomes a sort of martyr. Ridiculous. As you say he needs to be given rope to hang himself. Nicky Campbell interviewed him very well Ron Radio Five Live yesterday. Campbell was extremely laid back and gentle in his probing - which I think is the right way to do it. The best interview to expose Griffin is not a Paxo stuffing, but a Sir David Frost laid back style interview, getting Griffin to relax and thereby spew out his utter nonsense.
If you're looking for easy and relaxed interviewing, let's see him on Andrew Marr on Sunday, after the easy ride he gave Mandelson.
Only thing is, only political obsessives like us watch these programmes - he needs to be on things that the same people who read the Sun and the Star watch - and the first time he makes the slightest mistake, it'll be on You Tube forever more.
Kezia Dugdale, a Labour blogger, has written a good piece for Labourlist on how to engage with the BNP's sympathisers - to go to where they're at and not spout out the normal arrogant Labour rubbish (my words, not her's). It's here.http://www.labourlist.org/scunnered_kezia_dugdale
The point to note about this was that it was orchestrated by United Against Fascism which is dominated by Socialist Action and the Socialist Workers Party. The latter, in particular, has in the past had similar cross-over with gun-running for Irish Republican terror groups as the BNP has had with Combat18.
This is simply street-thuggery, a la Squadism, by a groupuscle which achieved much less of the vote on Thursday than the BNP. What democratic mandate do they have?
Ou of interest, Caron, what did you say to upset the trot so?
I'll grant you that it w
as controversial but I spoke against an amendment to a motion that would have allowed termination of pregnancy on demand right up until the due date. I'm definitely pro-choice on these things, but I felt that was going a bit far.
Interestingly that motion failed and my speech was otherwise well received.
Later that conference this poor guy was going to get thrown out for daring to chat up one of the Trot women in one of the bars. He didn't act inappropriately in any way, but apparently his crime was to assume that she wasn't a lesbian. It was the sort of thing that gives feminism a bad name and his friends asked me to speak up for him to the Conference. That was scary, but he was allowed to stay in the end.
Yeah, Trots can be highly prudish at times (as seen with stories of sexual regimentalism under their heroes, Trotsky and Stalin). That said, there's anecdotal evidence to suggest that the reason the SWP inner sanctum remained almost cultish over the decades was the propensitiy for members to share each other's beds. Tony Cliff is reputed to have quipped once, "carry on f*ck*ng comrades!".
Back in 2003, Lindsey German - who, according to wiki, have written two books on women - stated that, although she supported women's and gay rights in Muslim-majority states, she was "not prepared to have them as a shibboleth". This, and the response Craig Murray received at the recent StWC AGM to a his remark about Jacquie Smith suggests there may be some shibboleths left.
Well, I'm not sure I agree with Craig's comments about coal carrying and equating that to the exploitation that is prostitution. Most prostitutes have dangers and violence from pimps and drug dealers to cope with as well as the nature of their job. I don't think many choose it as a good career option after watching Secret Diary of a Call Girl.
I only checked your blog out today and discovered you're a fellow highlander - although Wick and Thurso might as well have been on separate planets:-). I haven't been back in Caithness since '92 but I keep in touch with what's happening up there via friends caithness.org and the like.
Murray's been diagnosed both with bi-polar and sexual hyperactivity. The former would go a long way to explaining his sense of diplomacy whilst Ambassador; the latter his amorous exploits whilst Ambassador, as well as his decision to make the remark on the podium and the one about coal.
His bemused reaction to such remarks makes for amusement amongst otherwise odd politics. D'you know that Steve Coogan has been touted to play him in a film? That'll be perfect!
Still, I do have some sympathy for his bemused reaction to the vitriol he received; when one considers the political forces the StWC has been keen to allign itself with.
Aye, I'm in Thurso, although I went the opposite direction to you in 1992. I found your blog through the archive section of Caithness.org, but have long given up on the forums. I've been around the block a few times on t'Interweb - some energy-draining political sites - and can say, hand on heart, that the atmosphere in the forums is one of the nastiest and most unpredictable I have ever witnessed.