posted on September 22, 2009, 1:53 pm
I keep on having problems drilling holes for dowels, sometimes the drill slips as much as 3 mm - I am thinking of using a fostner bit, but are there any good solution for doing dowels holes with a ordinary wood drill (bit)?
Basically: are there some good instructions/idea on the net (with pictures?)
WBR Sonnich
The only _real_ answer is to quit using dowels... :)
The "trick" is to use a doweling jig -- either make one or you can buy versions from inexpensive to ridiculously expensive.
posted on September 23, 2009, 2:33 pm
I've had really good luck using a Forstner bit AND a doweling jig ... something like this one:
http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/20262-01-500.jpg
I lost count of how many dowels are holding my recently completed wine rack together, but ... no problems.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FxNEvbUE3h-K9mozG0PUKw?feat=directlink
I think Forstner bits like low rpm's ... incidentally.
posted on September 22, 2009, 2:01 pm
Brad point bit. Forstner is fine too but if I recall you can get a good brad point bit cheaper. You don't say what size hole you're drilling, I'm just assuming it's in the half inch or smaller range.
As you've found out the hard way, a standard wood bit is the worst thing to use for precision drilling. You might be able to get it centering better if you drilled a shallow hole in the center with a much smaller bit, but that's basically what the brad point drill does.
posted on September 22, 2009, 2:42 pm
I did a fast search on the net, and cannot see what the difference is between a normal wood drill and a "brad point bit" is. Both are drilles, with the small 2mm tip in front? I have tried using a 2 mm drill bit, then a 6 mm drill bit. I use mostly 6 mm dowels, but also 8 and 10 mm.
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/images/HSS-Brad-Point-sm.jpg HSS, but my normal wood bits look the same.
bdp: As for not using dowels, the same problem apply: there are other ways of putting things together, but precission is the same problem. Then next problem is my work(shop) in my apartment and limited spaces :) Otherwise, I agree :)
posted on September 22, 2009, 3:01 pm
This is a close-up view of a brad point bit.
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53689%3Enu%3D3395%3E%3B5:%3E274%3EWSNRCG%3D323:79:%3B669:7nu0mrj
posted on September 22, 2009, 10:26 pm
Whatever bit you use won't solve the basic problem on its own. The point is to get accuracy (and most importrantly, repeatability) you need a placement mechanism other than trying to repeat the measurement of dead center on multiple pieces as well as on the centerline of the other axis.
W/o the reproducibility there, the drill is on the mark is still dependent on getting that mark which is a pita w/o a fixture.
Even if you make something extremely simple and it's not dead center it doesn't matter; simply register from the same surface and the offset is compensated. At least you're now down to only one axis to align to and once that is done (which is much simpler than holding the drill bit point freehand) having a guide cuts it to only the other axis at worst.
posted on September 22, 2009, 8:25 pm
There are a dozen types of drill bits, of which four are important to woodworkers. These are auger (long spiral flutes, with screw-form pilot in many cases) for deep holes, brad point (a better point form for locating holes than the 135 degree split point drills used for metal), spade bits (fine for carpentry, but a last resort for woodworkers), and Forstner bits (good appearance at entry point, square bottom holes).
If you want a good hole location, use a drill guide bushing like in a doweling jig, or something like this:
http://www.mannyswoodworkersplace.com/5011002.html
Never attempt to drill small holes then expand them, it defeats the centering of any drill except the Forstner when the center of the hole is missing. That only works with conical points (like metal drills).
Brad point bit. Forstner is fine too but if I recall you can get a
I bought the HSS BP bits from Woodcrafters? and they are excellent and (watch your fingrs) very sharp.
posted on September 23, 2009, 4:09 pm
I'm fighting -- with every fiber of my being -- the overwhelming urge to respond with ... "good point!"
I fear my fight is not going well ;-)
posted on September 22, 2009, 2:20 pm
Slips? As in produces an oblong or oversized hole when done?
If you are set on using standard twist drill tooling rather than other wood bits, you could start using a drill bushing set-up to guide the drill... This generally "fixes" the drill in place so that it doesn't wander during the cut even if it hits a hard spot, etc. Some of our custoemrs drill raw timber that sometimes has nails from the field embedded... Ugly work. The only way to keep the drill straight when it hits a nail or even hard grain areas is to use a bushing... And even that sometimes won't help if you are too deep and the tool flexes.
Depending on your volume, if you are doing more than a single hole at a time, I have otehr ideas, but they border on advertising from me so I won't go into them at this time. :)
posted on September 22, 2009, 2:47 pm
Slips: I already have problems here with English, let me explain. When drilling a 6 mm hole, the drill goes in, and 0-4 mm down it might "jump" say 3 mm causing the hole to be out of place. Wander might be the right wonder. Also "drill bushing set-up" is not clear for me. I do furniture for myself, and when ordered, say I work in my spare time 2 weekends/month on orders. Max order ever was 6 chairs, but a volume of 10 is soon to arrive.
Yes, you might add some links to your shop, pictures will help me a lot.
posted on September 22, 2009, 3:10 pm
A drill bushing is usually a hardened piece of steel that keeps the drill from moving at all.
http://www.frasers.com/displayFile.jsf?type=infosheetImg&infosheetId �0827&fileName=bush.jpg
When your drill is in the bushing or guide, it can not move to the left or right. It goes straight.
posted on September 22, 2009, 3:37 pm
Ah! Well, a biscuit joiner may be a better choice than dowels. Biscuits are much more forgiving.
posted on September 23, 2009, 12:47 am
The problem with Biscuits is that they are great for locating a joint while the glue sets but have little shear strength. Dowels do as do floating tenons. this means that using a biscuit joiner to replace dowels is usually a pour choice. If you want the speed and accuracy of a biscuit joiner but with the strength of a dowel then a Domino is the only choice now.
posted on September 23, 2009, 3:56 am
uh uh<g>
http://www.freudtools.com/p-420-fdw710k-doweling-joiner.aspx
Sorry while it is a nice tool its use is much more limited than the Domino or biscuit joiner.
For a single or twin dowel then it is as fast but that is realistically its limit. Also if you need to limit twist you have to have 2 dowels at 32mm centers so your minimum material size is limited.
AFAIK a Domino can be used in place that you could use biscuits but you can get exact registration with the first and then wiggle room with the others on long boards. In places where the maximum 10mm is too small you can use multiple or ganged dominos.
posted on September 23, 2009, 3:57 pm
On Sep 22, 7:47�pm, snipped-for-privacy@spamblock.net (Jerome Meekings) wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that biscuits aren't much good for position, either. Theit fit is too sloppy to register the pieces properly in either axis.
posted on September 23, 2009, 7:52 pm
Think clamp.
posted on September 23, 2009, 9:08 pm
There is no clamp in the world that will make a biscuit do anything for registration. Either the clamp (or caul) does it or it doesn't. The biscuit has nothing to do with it. BTDT.
What is it? Set 502
posted on September 22, 2009, 1:53 pm
I keep on having problems drilling holes for dowels, sometimes the drill slips as much as 3 mm - I am thinking of using a fostner bit, but are there any good solution for doing dowels holes with a ordinary wood drill (bit)?
Basically: are there some good instructions/idea on the net (with pictures?)
WBR Sonnich
The only _real_ answer is to quit using dowels... :)
The "trick" is to use a doweling jig -- either make one or you can buy versions from inexpensive to ridiculously expensive.
posted on September 23, 2009, 2:33 pm
I've had really good luck using a Forstner bit AND a doweling jig ... something like this one:
http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/20262-01-500.jpg
I lost count of how many dowels are holding my recently completed wine rack together, but ... no problems.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FxNEvbUE3h-K9mozG0PUKw?feat=directlink
I think Forstner bits like low rpm's ... incidentally.
posted on September 22, 2009, 2:01 pm
Brad point bit. Forstner is fine too but if I recall you can get a good brad point bit cheaper. You don't say what size hole you're drilling, I'm just assuming it's in the half inch or smaller range.
As you've found out the hard way, a standard wood bit is the worst thing to use for precision drilling. You might be able to get it centering better if you drilled a shallow hole in the center with a much smaller bit, but that's basically what the brad point drill does.
posted on September 22, 2009, 2:42 pm
I did a fast search on the net, and cannot see what the difference is between a normal wood drill and a "brad point bit" is. Both are drilles, with the small 2mm tip in front? I have tried using a 2 mm drill bit, then a 6 mm drill bit. I use mostly 6 mm dowels, but also 8 and 10 mm.
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/images/HSS-Brad-Point-sm.jpg HSS, but my normal wood bits look the same.
bdp: As for not using dowels, the same problem apply: there are other ways of putting things together, but precission is the same problem. Then next problem is my work(shop) in my apartment and limited spaces :) Otherwise, I agree :)
posted on September 22, 2009, 3:01 pm
This is a close-up view of a brad point bit.
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53689%3Enu%3D3395%3E%3B5:%3E274%3EWSNRCG%3D323:79:%3B669:7nu0mrj
posted on September 22, 2009, 10:26 pm
Whatever bit you use won't solve the basic problem on its own. The point is to get accuracy (and most importrantly, repeatability) you need a placement mechanism other than trying to repeat the measurement of dead center on multiple pieces as well as on the centerline of the other axis.
W/o the reproducibility there, the drill is on the mark is still dependent on getting that mark which is a pita w/o a fixture.
Even if you make something extremely simple and it's not dead center it doesn't matter; simply register from the same surface and the offset is compensated. At least you're now down to only one axis to align to and once that is done (which is much simpler than holding the drill bit point freehand) having a guide cuts it to only the other axis at worst.
posted on September 22, 2009, 8:25 pm
There are a dozen types of drill bits, of which four are important to woodworkers. These are auger (long spiral flutes, with screw-form pilot in many cases) for deep holes, brad point (a better point form for locating holes than the 135 degree split point drills used for metal), spade bits (fine for carpentry, but a last resort for woodworkers), and Forstner bits (good appearance at entry point, square bottom holes).
If you want a good hole location, use a drill guide bushing like in a doweling jig, or something like this:
http://www.mannyswoodworkersplace.com/5011002.html
Never attempt to drill small holes then expand them, it defeats the centering of any drill except the Forstner when the center of th
e hole is missing. That only works with conical points (like metal drills).
Brad point bit. Forstner is fine too but if I recall you can get a
I bought the HSS BP bits from Woodcrafters? and they are excellent and (watch your fingrs) very sharp.
posted on September 23, 2009, 4:09 pm
I'm fighting -- with every fiber of my being -- the overwhelming urge to respond with ... "good point!"
I fear my fight is not going well ;-)
posted on September 22, 2009, 2:20 pm
Slips? As in produces an oblong or oversized hole when done?
If you are set on using standard twist drill tooling rather than other wood bits, you could start using a drill bushing set-up to guide the drill... This generally "fixes" the drill in place so that it doesn't wander during the cut even if it hits a hard spot, etc. Some of our custoemrs drill raw timber that sometimes has nails from the field embedded... Ugly work. The only way to keep the drill straight when it hits a nail or even hard grain areas is to use a bushing... And even that sometimes won't help if you are too deep and the tool flexes.
Depending on your volume, if you are doing more than a single hole at a time, I have otehr ideas, but they border on advertising from me so I won't go into them at this time. :)
posted on September 22, 2009, 2:47 pm
Slips: I already have problems here with English, let me explain. When drilling a 6 mm hole, the drill goes in, and 0-4 mm down it might "jump" say 3 mm causing the hole to be out of place. Wander might be the right wonder. Also "drill bushing set-up" is not clear for me. I do furniture for myself, and when ordered, say I work in my spare time 2 weekends/month on orders. Max order ever was 6 chairs, but a volume of 10 is soon to arrive.
Yes, you might add some links to your shop, pictures will help me a lot.
posted on September 22, 2009, 3:10 pm
A drill bushing is usually a hardened piece of steel that keeps the drill from moving at all.
http://www.frasers.com/displayFile.jsf?type=infosheetImg&infosheetId �0827&fileName=bush.jpg
When your drill is in the bushing or guide, it can not move to the left or right. It goes straight.
posted on September 22, 2009, 3:37 pm
Ah! Well, a biscuit joiner may be a better choice than dowels. Biscuits are much more forgiving.
posted on September 23, 2009, 12:47 am
The problem with Biscuits is that they are great for locating a joint while the glue sets but have little shear strength. Dowels do as do floating tenons. this means that using a biscuit joiner to replace dowels is usually a pour choice. If you want the speed and accuracy of a biscuit joiner but with the strength of a dowel then a Domino is the only choice now.
posted on September 23, 2009, 3:56 am
uh uh<g>
http://www.freudtools.com/p-420-fdw710k-doweling-joiner.aspx
Sorry while it is a nice tool its use is much more limited than the Domino or biscuit joiner.
For a single or twin dowel then it is as fast but that is realistically its limit. Also if you need to limit twist you have to have 2 dowels at 32mm centers so your minimum material size is limited.
AFAIK a Domino can be used in place that you could use biscuits but you can get exact registration with the first and then wiggle room with the others on long boards. In places where the maximum 10mm is too small you can use multiple or ganged dominos.
posted on September 23, 2009, 3:57 pm
On Sep 22, 7:47�pm, snipped-for-privacy@spamblock.net (Jerome Meekings) wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that biscuits aren't much good for position, either. Theit fit is too sloppy to register the pieces properly in either axis.
posted on September 23, 2009, 7:52 pm
Think clamp.
posted on September 23, 2009, 9:08 pm
There is no clamp in the world that will make a biscuit do anything for registration. Either the clamp (or caul) does it or it doesn't. The biscuit has nothing to do with it. BTDT.
What is it? Set 502