Please tell us your Motivation - Page 10 - Fiberglass RV
05-04-2012, 06:56 PM #127
I sure hope it was accurate.
I work on medium and heavy duty trucks for a living.
Then I probably owe my life to the work your brothers-in-arms have done. As well as the life of the idiots that sometimes decided to force an "unplanned" extreme braking test.
05-04-2012, 07:24 PM #128
Why is it that the level of stupidity seems to increase when in the proximity of a large vehicle?
05-04-2012, 07:27 PM #129
Back sort of on the topic of "motivation" I am motivated to be able to tow as safely as possible. Tunge weight, balance of load, moderate speed, TV known to be acceptable for load. Check. Any trailer brakes are going to involve new axle which is not in my near term plans.
What I wonder is how much advantage does one of those bolt on friction anti-sway devices give? Especially since the trailer is lite in the first place. Anyone have any experience with them?
05-04-2012, 08:10 PM #130
We really have not seen sway with either fiberglass trailer, not even a little.
We've had an anti-sway bar for four years. When we began investigating towing someone recommended an anti sway bar saying, you'll be glad you have it in an emergency.
We've had to make one emergency, tire smoking stop and the trailer and tow vehicle stayed straight as an arrow, Did the antisway bar help? I don't know but we stopped straight.
We did have the tongue come off the ball once and the anti-sway bar acted like a second ball connection and held it all together. That made it worth the $65. (One of the previous owners had modified the ball clamp area preventing the clamp from locking correctly allowing the tongue to come off the ball.)
As well as being inexpensive it takes literally moments to attach and a 1/2 hour to install.
I should also mention that we do not have a W-D hitch.
05-04-2012, 08:22 PM #131
We've had an anti-sway bar for four years..... worth the $65. (One of the previous owners had modified the ball clamp area preventing the clamp from locking correctly allowing the tongue to come off the ball.)
What brand or model did you install? $65 seems like a reasonable insurance policy, have seen some on Amazon for around $45 but as they say beware of bargains in life boats and parachutes.
05-04-2012, 08:45 PM #132
I bought mine some years ago from PPL. I went to Amazon and there are a number available in that price range. This is a rather simple piece of hardware and a number are available. I am only familliar with the Reese. The following link will get you to the Amazon page.
The Camco unit comes with all the bits and pieces you need. The other companies seem to require purchase of a seperate ball and mount.
Amazon.com: trailer anti sway bars
05-04-2012, 09:08 PM #133
I guess that's because a third of the stupidity is behind the wheel of the large vehicle.
05-04-2012, 09:13 PM #134
We have an ACER with a square tube (same purpose).
NEED it... Probably not.
Love it.... You bet!
05-07-2012, 01:45 PM #135
I am starting this thread for one purpose only.
I am trying to understand clearly EXACTLY what is the motivation for towing beyond a vehicles rated towing numbers.
I am looking to learn what inspires this,how you determine it is safe and where you would draw the line and decide it is not OK?
We keep having these exchanges about this and they can get fairly heated without moving either side from their position I think and so I am really wondering about how and why this is, from the point of view that I do not understand?
I don't want this to be a place for arguing this point,I only want to hear from those towing at or beyond any rated range.
It would be ideal if there would be no social commentary about the conditions driving the ratings and whether ratings are legitimate or realistic or fair but I appreciate that this may be too much to ask.
well,,,manufacutres probably have a built in margine for safety in what they say a tow rating is....other then that,,,a deathwish?
05-07-2012, 01:48 PM #136
lol could be,, but i believe the last national highway statistics i read said only 7% of accidents involving comercial trucks and private cars were the trucks fault.
so at least some of the stupid, drive small vehicles i'd say.
05-07-2012, 02:47 PM #137
Well--- That and downright ignorance, mixed with a dose of arrogance with perhaps a teeny pinch of sociopathic tendencies thrown in as well.
Also I keep finding SO many references to "they do it in Europe". In many countries murder is a commonplace event - guess we should start that here, too?
I wonder how many folks are really, fully 100% confidant that their car is 100% identical to the one sold in Europe?
I was a Honda dealer guy for a while in the 80's and I can tell you that just between Canada and the US of A there were almost NO parts common to cars sold in the two markets. Canada got the Australian engine/trans package and the British suspension, with unique doors, floorpans, bumpers, seatbelts, seatbelt anchor points, seats, and lights. The US got a US-spec driveline with unique floorplans, doors, seats, seatbelts, lights & bumpers, all unique to the US.
I know that this continued up to (at least - is likely still happening, but I have not lookedat Hondas for a long time) around the year 2000 when I got stuck in Seattle with a 97 Accord with a cracked a distributor cap - very low cost part. the Seattle dealer was gonna have to ask Honda USA to obtain one from Honda Canada and the estimated time for delivery would be upwards of 10 days. I took a Greyhound to Vancouver, picked up a cap at Canadian Tire (about 10 bucks), bussed back to Seattle and was on my way the same day. The Canadian spec engine in my car was NEVER sold in the USA. I sold the Honda as soon as I got home and replaced it with one (A Toyota Cressida) that IS the same between Canada and the US of A.
Most Nissans, some Toyotas, and actually many "domestics" are also much diffferent for different markets, VW is VERY different between Canada and the US - nearly as "bad" as Honda. Now just imagine the differences between US spec and Euro-spec cars. Still wanna keep on with the "but they do it over there" argument?.
The way this forum continues to irresponsibly encourage people who have never towed anything before to "just do it", I fully expect to see someone being urged to tow a 40 footer with a Fiat 500 because it is European and the Unimog is also European and a Unimog is rated to tow something that big.
05-07-2012, 03:42 PM #138
A very interesting point. I would add that in the engineering field, intended specs such as load or tow capacity are often pre-determined before they even start designing any piece of machinery. So when applied to cars, the vehicle would be built so it meets or exceeds the pre-decided tow specs, and not the other way around.
However, the numbers we have in our car manuals are never explained to us, and sometimes appear downright silly. Not many folks really, fully 100% believe that those are the numbers the engineers originally came up with. And they are hardly ever enforced, and people rarely have that many problems exceeding them.
Moreover, we often see more reckless driving from drivers with big rigs that are 'up to spec' than from weekenders who are somewhat overloaded and chose to take it slow, and save on gas (and pollution) the rest of the year.
So that's why people stop taking the tow specs as gospel, and start wondering, and second-guessing, and trying to outsmart, and making up their own minds based on their own experience, driving habits, tolerance levels, and most importantly, their wallet. Those who do it with full knowledge of the facts, and drive accordingly are far from ignorant or arrogant in my book. Those who are more clueless, on the other hand... "just do it because someone else told them it was okay".
Until there are strict laws everywhere for this and a way to enforce it, you can expect many more threads on the same topic. We do seem to learn a little more each time, though.
05-07-2012, 04:03 PM #139
OK, hate me if you must, but this needs to be said. This seems to be the single most contentious issue that occurs and re-occurs on this forum, coming the closest to violating the "elegance of behaviour" that we all cherish so much on this forum. Some budding Psychology Phd student should do a thesis on it. Why is it that some have a relaxed “that’s about right” attitude to towing weights, while others seem to feel personally threatened if others do not follow the rules to the letter? Why does a discussion of fact turn so emotional?
Turns out many skilled folks have and it has to do with how your brain works. No amount of logical discourse will alter the basic viewpoints, since those viewpoints seem to arise from physiological factors.
According to a 2011 study[4] by cognitive neuroscientist Ryota Kanai's group[5] at University College London published in Current Biology, people with different political views have different brain structures.[6] The scientists performed MRI scans on 90 volunteer young adult people's brains.[7] According to ABC, "Scans revealed that the liberal students tended to have a larger region of the brain that processes conflicting information. That, say the authors, might make for tolerance to uncertainty in more liberal views. The conservatives tended to have a larger part of the brain that processes fear and identifies threats. They might be more inclined to integrate conservative views into their politics." The results of the study showed that conservatives had a larger amygdala,[8] an almond-shaped structure of brain involved in processing memory of emotional reactions.[9] Liberals had increased grey matter in the anterior cingulate cortex,[8] a comma-shaped structure of the brain that plays a role in a wide variety of autonomic functions, such as regulating blood pressure and heart rate, as well as rational cognitive functions, such as reward anticipation, decision-making, empathy[10] and emotion.[11][12]
Nation & World | Brains of liberals, conservatives may work differently, study finds | Seattle Times Newspaper
http://www.psych.nyu.edu/amodiolab/P...atureNeuro.pdf
So, let the discussion continue, since information exchange is, after all, what this forum is about. But, please, let’s keep it civil.
05-07-2012, 04:04 PM #140
I am 100% confidant that mine is not the same as the Outback sold in Europe! Although a number of folks here luv to claim it is to justify towing over its tow specs!
Please tell us your Motivation - Page 10 - Fiberglass RV
05-04-2012, 06:56 PM #127
I sure hope it was accurate.
I work on medium and heavy duty trucks for a living.
Then I probably owe my life to the work your brothers-in-arms have done. As well as the life of the idiots that sometimes decided to force an "unplanned" extreme braking test.
05-04-2012, 07:24 PM #128
Why is it that the level of stupidity seems to increase when in the proximity of a large vehicle?
05-04-2012, 07:27 PM #129
Back sort of on the topic of "motivation" I am motivated to be able to tow as safely as possible. Tunge weight, balance of load, moderate speed, TV known to be acceptable for load. Check. Any trailer brakes are going to involve new axle which is not in my near term plans.
What I wonder is how much advantage does one of those bolt on friction anti-sway devices give? Especially since the trailer is lite in the first place. Anyone have any experience with them?
05-04-2012, 08:10 PM #130
We really have not seen sway with either fiberglass trailer, not even a little.
We've had an anti-sway bar for four years. When we began investigating towing someone recommended an anti sway bar saying, you'll be glad you have it in an emergency.
We've had to make one emergency, tire smoking stop and the trailer and tow vehicle stayed straight as an arrow, Did the antisway bar help? I don't know but we stopped straight.
We did have the tongue come off the ball once and the anti-sway bar acted like a second ball connection and held it all together. That made it worth the $65. (One of the previous owners had modified the ball clamp area preventing the clamp from locking correctly allowing the tongue to come off the ball.)
As well as being inexpensive it takes literally moments to attach and a 1/2 hour to install.
I should also mention that we do not have a W-D hitch.
05-04-2012, 08:22 PM #131
We've had an anti-sway bar for four years..... worth the $65. (One of the previous owners had modified the ball clamp area preventing the clamp from locking correctly allowing the tongue to come off the ball.)
What brand or model did you install? $65 seems like a reasonable insurance policy, have seen some on Amazon for around $45 but as they say beware of bargains in life boats and parachutes.
05-04-2012, 08:45 PM #132
I bought mine some years ago from PPL. I went to Amazon and there are a number available in that price range. This is a rather simple piece of hardware and a number are available. I am only familliar with the Reese. The following link will get you to the Amazon page.
The Camco unit comes with all the bits and pieces you need. The other companies seem to require purchase of a seperate ball and mount.
Amazon.com: trailer anti sway bars
05-04-2012, 09:08 PM #133
I guess that's because a third of the stupidity is behind the wheel of the large vehicle.
05-04-2012, 09:13 PM #134
We have an ACER with a square tube (same purpose).
NEED it... Probably not.
Love it.... You bet!
05-07-2012, 01:45 PM #135
I am starting this thread for one purpose only.
I am trying to understand clearly EXACTLY what is the motivation for towing beyond a vehicles rated towing numbers.
I am looking to learn what inspires this,how you determine it is safe and where you would draw the line and decide it is not OK?
We keep having these exchanges about this and they can get fairly heated without moving either side from their position I think and so I am really wondering about how and why this is, from the point of view that I do not understand?
I don't want this to be a place for arguing this point,I only want to hear from those towing at or beyond any rated range.
It would be ideal if there would be no social commentary about the conditions driving the ratings and whether ratings are legitimate or realistic or fair but I appreciate that this may be too much to ask.
well,,,manufacutres probably have a built in margine for safety in what they say a tow rating is....other then that,,,a deathwish?
05-07-2012, 01:48 PM #136
lol could be,, but i believe the last national highway statistics i read said only 7% of accidents involving comercial trucks and private cars were the trucks fault.
so at least some of the stupid, drive small vehicles i'd say.
05-07-2012, 02:47 PM #137
Well--- That and downright ignorance, mixed with a dose of arrogance with perhaps a teeny pinch of sociopathic tendencies thrown in as well.
Also I keep finding SO many references to "they do it in Europe". In many countries murder is a commonplace event - guess we should start that here, too?
I wonder how many folks are really, fully 100% confidant that their car is 100% identical to the one sold in Europe?
I was a Honda dealer guy for a while in the 80's and I can tell you that just between Canada and the US of A there were almost NO parts common to cars sold in the two markets. Canada got the Australian engine/trans package and the British suspension, with unique doors, floorpans, bumpers, seatbelts, seatbelt anchor points, seats, and lights. The US got a US-spec driveline with unique floorplans, doors, seats, seatbelts, lights & bumpers, all unique to the US.
I know that this continued up to (at least - is likely still happening, but I have not lookedat Hondas for a l
ong time) around the year 2000 when I got stuck in Seattle with a 97 Accord with a cracked a distributor cap - very low cost part. the Seattle dealer was gonna have to ask Honda USA to obtain one from Honda Canada and the estimated time for delivery would be upwards of 10 days. I took a Greyhound to Vancouver, picked up a cap at Canadian Tire (about 10 bucks), bussed back to Seattle and was on my way the same day. The Canadian spec engine in my car was NEVER sold in the USA. I sold the Honda as soon as I got home and replaced it with one (A Toyota Cressida) that IS the same between Canada and the US of A.
Most Nissans, some Toyotas, and actually many "domestics" are also much diffferent for different markets, VW is VERY different between Canada and the US - nearly as "bad" as Honda. Now just imagine the differences between US spec and Euro-spec cars. Still wanna keep on with the "but they do it over there" argument?.
The way this forum continues to irresponsibly encourage people who have never towed anything before to "just do it", I fully expect to see someone being urged to tow a 40 footer with a Fiat 500 because it is European and the Unimog is also European and a Unimog is rated to tow something that big.
05-07-2012, 03:42 PM #138
A very interesting point. I would add that in the engineering field, intended specs such as load or tow capacity are often pre-determined before they even start designing any piece of machinery. So when applied to cars, the vehicle would be built so it meets or exceeds the pre-decided tow specs, and not the other way around.
However, the numbers we have in our car manuals are never explained to us, and sometimes appear downright silly. Not many folks really, fully 100% believe that those are the numbers the engineers originally came up with. And they are hardly ever enforced, and people rarely have that many problems exceeding them.
Moreover, we often see more reckless driving from drivers with big rigs that are 'up to spec' than from weekenders who are somewhat overloaded and chose to take it slow, and save on gas (and pollution) the rest of the year.
So that's why people stop taking the tow specs as gospel, and start wondering, and second-guessing, and trying to outsmart, and making up their own minds based on their own experience, driving habits, tolerance levels, and most importantly, their wallet. Those who do it with full knowledge of the facts, and drive accordingly are far from ignorant or arrogant in my book. Those who are more clueless, on the other hand... "just do it because someone else told them it was okay".
Until there are strict laws everywhere for this and a way to enforce it, you can expect many more threads on the same topic. We do seem to learn a little more each time, though.
05-07-2012, 04:03 PM #139
OK, hate me if you must, but this needs to be said. This seems to be the single most contentious issue that occurs and re-occurs on this forum, coming the closest to violating the "elegance of behaviour" that we all cherish so much on this forum. Some budding Psychology Phd student should do a thesis on it. Why is it that some have a relaxed “that’s about right” attitude to towing weights, while others seem to feel personally threatened if others do not follow the rules to the letter? Why does a discussion of fact turn so emotional?
Turns out many skilled folks have and it has to do with how your brain works. No amount of logical discourse will alter the basic viewpoints, since those viewpoints seem to arise from physiological factors.
According to a 2011 study[4] by cognitive neuroscientist Ryota Kanai's group[5] at University College London published in Current Biology, people with different political views have different brain structures.[6] The scientists performed MRI scans on 90 volunteer young adult people's brains.[7] According to ABC, "Scans revealed that the liberal students tended to have a larger region of the brain that processes conflicting information. That, say the authors, might make for tolerance to uncertainty in more liberal views. The conservatives tended to have a larger part of the brain that processes fear and identifies threats. They might be more inclined to integrate conservative views into their politics." The results of the study showed that conservatives had a larger amygdala,[8] an almond-shaped structure of brain involved in processing memory of emotional reactions.[9] Liberals had increased grey matter in the anterior cingulate cortex,[8] a comma-shaped structure of the brain that plays a role in a wide variety of autonomic functions, such as regulating blood pressure and heart rate, as well as rational cognitive functions, such as reward anticipation, decision-making, empathy[10] and emotion.[11][12]
Nation & World | Brains of liberals, conservatives may work differently, study finds | Seattle Times Newspaper
http://www.psych.nyu.edu/amodiolab/P...atureNeuro.pdf
So, let the discussion continue, since information exchange is, after all, what this forum is about. But, please, let’s keep it civil.
05-07-2012, 04:04 PM #140
I am 100% confidant that mine is not the same as the Outback sold in Europe! Although a number of folks here luv to claim it is to justify towing over its tow specs!