Operation gun runner, fast and furious | BrownCafe - UPSers talking about UPS
Discussion in 'Current Events' started by toonertoo, Jul 7, 2011.
Any thoughts on this, if you can be torn away from the 24,7 news..............http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2745149/posts....
And the Mexican Government would like those US officials who authorized this stupid idea tried in Mexico.
Here's a nice idea; since they will now allow Mexican trucks to drive in the USA, why not have a few head right up to DC and start loading them up with all the guilty parties.
Any thoughts on this, if you can be torn away from the 24,7 news..............http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2745149/posts....Click to expand...
First off, good find Tooner. But let's back away for the moment and pose this question. As a private person working with a larger group of private persons, what would we need to do if we want to send guns to Mexico and then track them. Very generally speaking, we'd need a certain amount of guns that we could track and locate. Now a gun in the realm of James Bond where you follow it on screen from the car (the little beep) seems a bit far fetched but obviously some unique identifier would come into play. To do this, I can't see the need for $10mil must less $15 or $40 mil. But even greater is the deeper moral question. If you believe certain persons are evil, would do mortal harm to innocent persons, how could you in the name of law enforcement, put the actual means to do harm in their hands? Would the public condone giving Charles Manson a knife on the premise to determine what he would do and how would he act if he got one? Granted, law enforcement would learn in observing him, science I'm sure would learn more about the human mind but is that the right way to go about it? I think the US Gov't has dumped way more guns into Mexico than we even realize as several years ago when the allegations of guns in Mexico were coming from American gunstores, there were claims that the guns spoke of were in fact coming into the drug world via rotten Mexican military who were on the take and their gunsources were in fact the US Gov't under the good neighbor policy. When a large cach of weapons were seized in various raids and law enforcement actions, several gunowner advocacy groups asked to obtain the weapon serial number and then back trace to the source which seems very reasonable. If a gun store is doing this, shut em' down. However both the Mexican and US gov't strongly opposed public disclosure of weapon serial numbers at all levels but the question is why?
I think Project Gunrunner is just the tip of a very, very dirty iceburg. If we would sell weapons and even WMD capability to Iraq and Saddam Hussein in the 1980's to support him in his war with Iran, is it that farfetched to think out gov't or persons within out gov't for self interest reasons would not sell guns to Mexican drug gangs? And while you are at it, sometime google "CIA DRUGS" and just watch where that search will lead you!
Mexican police released a videotaped interview of Jesus Enrique Rejon Aguilar, in which the recently captured No. 3 leader of the Los Zetas drug cartel said “all the weapons” the Zetas use were “bought in the United States” and that “even the American government itself was selling the weapons.”
In the last five years, over 37,000 have died in Mexico’s drug violence. And many Mexicans recognize the ultimate cause: Drug prohibition. It was not a big news story in the United States, but a few months ago thousands of Mexicans took to the streets protesting the drug policy being enforced by Mexican authorities and sponsored, actually imposed, by Washington, DC.Click to expand...
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4833-american-ruling-class-66.html
Just another major screw up from this administration , any normal administration would already have fallen, but this one just keeps on giving us more & more .
Honestly is this the hope & change we were promised ?
I believe there was more sinister motivations behind this little debacle. The Obama administration is heavily anti-gun, and would love to get some strong gun control measures put in place, but it doesn't have the support from the public and thus the congress to get it done. So they came up with this little scheme hoping to help increase the number of U.S. originated weapons into the hands of drug cartel thugs in hopes they could then come back and say "See, we need more gun control otherwise this is just going to get worse!" Its just an attempt to worsen a problem to push ahead a political agenda, and this isn't the first time the Obama administration has done this. Whoever is connected to this program in the upper ranks of the ATF need to be charged with an accessory to murder considering two U.S. agents were killed by these weapons. Now is a good time to put out the message that putting Americans directly at risk to push a domestic political agenda is not tolerated.
Holder belongs in the hoosegow !!
I believe there was more sinister motivations behind this little debacle. The Obama administration is heavily anti-gun, and would love to get some strong gun control measures put in place, but it doesn't have the support from the public and thus the congress to get it done. So they came up with this little scheme hoping to help increase the number of U.S. originated weapons into the hands of drug cartel thugs in hopes they could then come back and say "See, we need more gun control otherwise this is just going to get worse!" Its just an attempt to worsen a problem to push ahead a political agenda, and this isn't the first time the Obama administration has done this. Whoever is connected to this program in the upper ranks of the ATF need to be charged with an accessory to murder considering two U.S. agents were killed by these weapons. Now is a good time to put out the message that putting Americans directly at risk to push a domestic political agenda is not tolerated.Click to expand...
I won't disagree somewhat with the motive at heart which you describe but to blame Obama solely for Project Gunrunner would be incorrect. From the US Dept. of Justice Working Draft Report on Project Gunrunner dated Sept. 2010' you'll find the following under the Executive Summary:
To help combat firearms trafficking into Mexico, ATF began Project
Gunrunner as a pilot project in Laredo, Texas, in 2005 and expanded it as a
national initiative in 2006. Project Gunrunner is also part of the
Department’s broader Southwest Border Initiative, which seeks to reduce
cross-border drug and firearms trafficking and the high level of violence
associated with these activities on both sides of the border.
In June 2007, ATF published a strategy document, Southwest Border
Initiative: Project Gunrunner (Gunrunner strategy), outlining four key
components to Project Gunrunner.........Click to expand...
If you are going to ascribe such a standard to Obama and question his motive, and rightly so, you should be consistent and hold the same standard to President Bush and question his motive. Of even greater interest is the fact it began in his home state. If some nefarious motive is assigned to Obama then let's be honest and hold him accountable only to the level that he continued another Bush policy!
With President Obama running Bush policy after Bush policy and thus Obama is a socialist, what does that make Bush and those who voted for Bush?
wkmac:857224][QUOTE=brett636 said:
I'm just sayin'..........[/QUOTE]
I'm certain that programs like these are floated all the time by different government agencies. Especially those involved in law enforcement. It is the administration's perogative whether to fund it or not. The stimulus law signed by president Obama in 2009 included $10 million in funding for the fast and furious program telling me it was a priority of this administration by which I am not totally surprised.
I'm certain that programs like these are floated all the time by different government agencies. Especially those involved in law enforcement. It is the administration's perogative whether to fund it or not. The stimulus law signed by president Obama in 2009 included $10 million in funding for the fast and furious program telling me it was a priority of this administration by which I am not totally surprised.Click to expand...
You may be giving Obama a break on the actual numbers. On page 19 of the Project Gunrunner Report you'll find the following numbers as it pertains to taxpayer funding.
U.S. Department of Justice 5
Initially, Project Gunrunner had no dedicated funding within ATF’s
budget. As ATF expanded the initiative in response to the increased
violence in Mexico and concern over firearms trafficking into Mexico, ATF
began seeking dedicated funds for Project Gunrunner, starting with its
FY 2008 budget request. In FY 2009, ATF received $21.9 million to support
and expand Project Gunrunner, which included $5.9 million in ATF’s
FY 2009 appropriation for Project Gunrunner and $10 million in the
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Recovery Act). Under
Public Law No. 111-230 (2010), Emergency Border Security Supplemental
Appropriations, ATF received an additional $37.5 million for the continued
expansion of Project Gunrunner in FY 2010.Click to expand...
Looks to me the $10 mil you spoke of was just from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act but other supplemental dollars were built in elsewhere for a much high total amount of taxpayer dollars set aside. From another POV, that same amount of money for Project Gunrunner, how much medical care for the underclass would that have paid for? Food for the starving? Extending unemployment benefits?
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/12/i...als-in-fast-and-furious-letter/#ixzz1RxSt4mCM
bhos lied again, this operation was a shovel ready project. Mostly graves.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/13/too-fast-too-furious/
Well now it seems the FBI has been outed in the dru....opps sorry, I meant gun smuggling. Not that the FBI has not been on the wrong side of the law before.
When are we going to wake up that Obama or Bush are meaningless and that these bastards have been playing us for idiots for decades!
When are we going to wake up that Obama or Bush are meaningless and that these bastards have been playing us for idiots for decades!Click to expand...
What do you suggest as a prescription for this?
Messages: 143, Views: 7992
Messages: 41, Views: 1781
Operation gun runner, fast and furious | BrownCafe - UPSers talking about UPS
Discussion in 'Current Events' started by toonertoo, Jul 7, 2011.
Any thoughts on this, if you can be torn away from the 24,7 news..............http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2745149/posts....
And the Mexican Government would like those US officials who authorized this stupid idea tried in Mexico.
Here's a nice idea; since they will now allow Mexican trucks to drive in the USA, why not have a few head right up to DC and start loading them up with all the guilty parties.
Any thoughts on this, if you can be torn away from the 24,7 news..............http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2745149/posts....Click to expand...
First off, good find Tooner. But let's back away for the moment and pose this question. As a private person working with a larger group of private persons, what would we need to do if we want to send guns to Mexico and then track them. Very generally speaking, we'd need a certain amount of guns that we could track and locate. Now a gun in the realm of James Bond where you follow it on screen from the car (the little beep) seems a bit far fetched but obviously some unique identifier would come into play. To do this, I can't see the need for $10mil must less $15 or $40 mil. But even greater is the deeper moral question. If you believe certain persons are evil, would do mortal harm to innocent persons, how could you in the name of law enforcement, put the actual means to do harm in their hands? Would the public condone giving Charles Manson a knife on the premise to determine what he would do and how would he act if he got one? Granted, law enforcement would learn in observing him, science I'm sure would learn more about the human mind but is that the right way to go about it? I think the US Gov't has dumped way more guns into Mexico than we even realize as several years ago when the allegations of guns in Mexico were coming from American gunstores, there were claims that the guns spoke of were in fact coming into the drug world via rotten Mexican military who were on the take and their gunsources were in fact the US Gov't under the good neighbor policy. When a large cach of weapons were seized in various raids and law enforcement actions, several gunowner advocacy groups asked to obtain the weapon serial number and then back trace to the source which seems very reasonable. If a gun store is doing this, shut em' down. However both the Mexican and US gov't strongly opposed public disclosure of weapon serial numbers at all levels but the question is why?
I think Project Gunrunner is just the tip of a very, very dirty iceburg. If we would sell weapons and even WMD capability to Iraq and Saddam Hussein in the 1980's to support him in his war with Iran, is it that farfetched to think out gov't or persons within out gov't for self interest reasons would not sell guns to Mexican drug gangs? And while you are at it, sometime google "CIA DRUGS" and just watch where that search will lead you!
Mexican police released a videotaped interview of Jesus Enrique Rejon Aguilar, in which the recently captured No. 3 leader of the Los Zetas drug cartel said “all the weapons” the Zetas use were “bought in the United States” and that “even the American government itself was selling the weapons.”
In the last five years, over 37,000 have died in Mexico’s drug violence. And many Mexicans recognize the ultimate cause: Drug prohibition. It was not a big news story in the United States, but a few months ago thousands of Mexicans took to the streets protesting the drug policy being enforced by Mexican authorities and sponsored, actually imposed, by Washington, DC.Click to expand...
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4833-american-ruling-class-66.html
Just another major screw up from this administration , any normal administration would already have fallen, but this one just keeps on giving us more & more .
Honestly is this the hope & change we were promised ?
I believe there was more sinister motivations behind this little debacle. The Obama administration is heavily anti-gun, and would love to get some strong gun control measures put in place, but it doesn't have the support from the public and thus the congress to get it done. So they came up with this little scheme hoping to help increase the number of U.S. originated weapons into the hands of drug cartel thugs in hopes they could then come back and say "See, we need more gun control otherwise this is just going to get worse!" Its just an attempt to worsen a problem to push ahead a political agenda, and this isn't the first time the Obama administration has done this. Whoever is connected to this program in the upper ranks of the ATF need to be charged with an accessory to murder considering two U.S. agents were killed by these weapons. Now is a good time to put out the message that putting Americans directly at risk to push a domestic political agenda is not tolerated.
Holder belongs in the hoosegow !!
I believe there was more sinister motivations behind this little debacle. The Obama administration is heavily anti-gun, and would love to get some strong gun control measures put in place, but it doesn't have the support from the p
ublic and thus the congress to get it done. So they came up with this little scheme hoping to help increase the number of U.S. originated weapons into the hands of drug cartel thugs in hopes they could then come back and say "See, we need more gun control otherwise this is just going to get worse!" Its just an attempt to worsen a problem to push ahead a political agenda, and this isn't the first time the Obama administration has done this. Whoever is connected to this program in the upper ranks of the ATF need to be charged with an accessory to murder considering two U.S. agents were killed by these weapons. Now is a good time to put out the message that putting Americans directly at risk to push a domestic political agenda is not tolerated.Click to expand...
I won't disagree somewhat with the motive at heart which you describe but to blame Obama solely for Project Gunrunner would be incorrect. From the US Dept. of Justice Working Draft Report on Project Gunrunner dated Sept. 2010' you'll find the following under the Executive Summary:
To help combat firearms trafficking into Mexico, ATF began Project
Gunrunner as a pilot project in Laredo, Texas, in 2005 and expanded it as a
national initiative in 2006. Project Gunrunner is also part of the
Department’s broader Southwest Border Initiative, which seeks to reduce
cross-border drug and firearms trafficking and the high level of violence
associated with these activities on both sides of the border.
In June 2007, ATF published a strategy document, Southwest Border
Initiative: Project Gunrunner (Gunrunner strategy), outlining four key
components to Project Gunrunner.........Click to expand...
If you are going to ascribe such a standard to Obama and question his motive, and rightly so, you should be consistent and hold the same standard to President Bush and question his motive. Of even greater interest is the fact it began in his home state. If some nefarious motive is assigned to Obama then let's be honest and hold him accountable only to the level that he continued another Bush policy!
With President Obama running Bush policy after Bush policy and thus Obama is a socialist, what does that make Bush and those who voted for Bush?
wkmac:857224][QUOTE=brett636 said:
I'm just sayin'..........[/QUOTE]
I'm certain that programs like these are floated all the time by different government agencies. Especially those involved in law enforcement. It is the administration's perogative whether to fund it or not. The stimulus law signed by president Obama in 2009 included $10 million in funding for the fast and furious program telling me it was a priority of this administration by which I am not totally surprised.
I'm certain that programs like these are floated all the time by different government agencies. Especially those involved in law enforcement. It is the administration's perogative whether to fund it or not. The stimulus law signed by president Obama in 2009 included $10 million in funding for the fast and furious program telling me it was a priority of this administration by which I am not totally surprised.Click to expand...
You may be giving Obama a break on the actual numbers. On page 19 of the Project Gunrunner Report you'll find the following numbers as it pertains to taxpayer funding.
U.S. Department of Justice 5
Initially, Project Gunrunner had no dedicated funding within ATF’s
budget. As ATF expanded the initiative in response to the increased
violence in Mexico and concern over firearms trafficking into Mexico, ATF
began seeking dedicated funds for Project Gunrunner, starting with its
FY 2008 budget request. In FY 2009, ATF received $21.9 million to support
and expand Project Gunrunner, which included $5.9 million in ATF’s
FY 2009 appropriation for Project Gunrunner and $10 million in the
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Recovery Act). Under
Public Law No. 111-230 (2010), Emergency Border Security Supplemental
Appropriations, ATF received an additional $37.5 million for the continued
expansion of Project Gunrunner in FY 2010.Click to expand...
Looks to me the $10 mil you spoke of was just from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act but other supplemental dollars were built in elsewhere for a much high total amount of taxpayer dollars set aside. From another POV, that same amount of money for Project Gunrunner, how much medical care for the underclass would that have paid for? Food for the starving? Extending unemployment benefits?
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/12/i...als-in-fast-and-furious-letter/#ixzz1RxSt4mCM
bhos lied again, this operation was a shovel ready project. Mostly graves.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/13/too-fast-too-furious/
Well now it seems the FBI has been outed in the dru....opps sorry, I meant gun smuggling. Not that the FBI has not been on the wrong side of the law before.
When are we going to wake up that Obama or Bush are meaningless and that these bastards have been playing us for idiots for decades!
When are we going to wake up that Obama or Bush are meaningless and that these bastards have been playing us for idiots for decades!Click to expand...
What do you suggest as a prescription for this?
Messages: 143, Views: 7992
Messages: 41, Views: 1781