Concerned about how school are dealing with a very physical child |
» Concerned about how school are dealing with a very physical child
Concerned about how school are dealing with a very physical child
rugbyfootballswimming Tue 07-Mar-17 21:19:31
My DS started school in September, so he's in reception, age 5. He made friends with a boy, let's call him Bob. In the first term my DS got hurt a couple of times by Bob. And my son occasionally tells me other things the boy has done to him, or said to him that aren't that nice.
So today, I get a note home saying that DS 'bumped his head on something' (won't say what as it's a little identifying). So I asked my DS what happened. Apparently Bob threw the thing they were playing with together at his head, this was in the classroom, in front of the teacher, who wrote the note. Should the teacher have clearly explained what happened in the note? I feel that it was possibly intentional to mislead me about what happened. Or am I over reacting? Should I speak with the teacher tomorrow?
Wolfiefan Tue 07-Mar-17 21:24:29
The teacher can't discuss another child with you and won't put that he threw something at your child. I would speak to school and say you are concerned. But you need to approach it by asking how they are safeguarding your child not how are they dealing with the other boy.
smilingsarahb Tue 07-Mar-17 21:34:59
A quick informal chat won't do any harm. Just pop you head round the door at the end of the day and say something like ' I wonder if you could fill me in a bit more about this bump yesterday' The start of the day isn't a good time to chat so if you don't pick up, call in. I'd doubt they would deliberately try and mislead you as children talk! They would know most parents would pull out the note and then ask their child if they were ok and what happened.
sirfredfredgeorge Tue 07-Mar-17 21:36:55
An accident report which said "bumped head on rubber chicken" when the incident is "rubber chicken hit head" are quite different injuries. So it is wrong to report that, so that's a bit strange.
But yes, I still think you're overreacting, the chance of a 5 yead old being accurate enough to make it an intentional act to hurt your DS - as opposed to throwing out in frustration / anger and happened to it is pretty slim. The school will certainly be managing the throwing of stuff, and a single incident is not worth too much thought.
Boiled7Up Tue 07-Mar-17 21:54:11
TBH it is unusual for one child to target another.
It is not uncommon for 2 5 year olds to indulge in a bit of play fighting... are you sure that Bob isn't going home and telling his mum a similar story?
kittybiscuits Tue 07-Mar-17 21:57:42
Ah Bob, yes. It is not okay for the teacher to be sketchy with the details. If your child was hit on the head by another child throwing an object at him, you should be told that, though not the identity of the thrower of course.
mrz Wed 08-Mar-17 05:52:09
The teacher doesn't have to name the child who threw the object (obviously your child is going to tell you) but they should have said "x was hit on the head by an object thrown by another child"
MooseBeTimeForSnow Wed 08-Mar-17 06:28:10
Boiled. Really? My 5 year old DS was approached by a classmate and pushed over. My son was in the line waiting for his bus and their teacher was stood right next to him. It was unprovoked and deliberate and he flatly refused to apologise.
irvineoneohone Wed 08-Mar-17 06:45:07
This happened to my ds. Of course ds told me x did it on purpose. I didn't think so. Also I asked him what happened, and he told me that x was told off by the teacher. They are still friends after 3/4 years.
If this dc is particularly physical with your ds, maybe you should tell the teacher about your concern, but I think these things happen with young children who cannot communicate effectively yet.
rugbyfootballswimming Wed 08-Mar-17 06:45:17
Thanks for replies. I guess I'm really wondering whether the teacher should have said on the note what actually happened, rather than being v vague, seems she probably should have. Bob has form for doing similar things, not just with my child (I think there was a bit of arguing over the toy between my son and Bob but that doesn't excuse throwing a hard object at someone's head, not at 5, surely). But the fact she wasn't clear (without naming the child) makes me wonder why...
Merlin40 Wed 08-Mar-17 06:48:27
Is it usual to send notes re 'injuries' rather than a phone call in primary (I'm secondary and we would always phone to report any kind of head injury)?
I wouldn't expect much more info re the other child but I would expect details of what actually happened, maybe the class teacher is assuming you'll pop in this morning to explain? Or would be happy to explain more if asked?
Merlin40 Wed 08-Mar-17 06:49:22
And there could be all sorts going on with Bob that you aren't aware of, home circumstances or SEN, so I would reserve judgement.
irvineoneohone Wed 08-Mar-17 06:56:35
My ds once had a cut on his forehead.(tiny, but bleeding) The school/teacher didn't even tell me what happened. (not even a note.)
It was done by a child threw wooden bricks. Ds said ta took him to first aid, put a plaster. That was it. It didn't even occurred to me to question teacher. I thought these things(accidents) happen. Maybe I was too relaxed?
Believeitornot Wed 08-Mar-17 07:00:14
Maybe she didn't see exactly what happened.... while she may have been there, she might have had her attention elsewhere.
School is a bit of an adjustment as a parent. You can't expect to have as much detail on things and you won't know the full details as to what is going on in class.
If however there are a few incidences then you can speak to the teacher about it and ask her to keep an eye out.
Userone1 Wed 08-Mar-17 07:12:28
I think teachers are suppose to log incidents hence the note home.
If the note sent home isn't accurate, then neither is the log.
If 'bob' has been hurting lots of children and the school are failing to give accurate description of incidents, then 'bob's' behaviour will go unnoticed.
Do 'Bob' a favour and ask for an accurate account to be written. If Bob is constantly hurting others, he needs some help and other children also need to be kept safe.
UpdateRequired Wed 08-Mar-17 07:25:59
Ds's school is notorious for downplaying this sort of thing. A few months ago ds was punched in the face by a classmate and ended up with a split lip. The accident slip said 'bump to the lip'. The child who did it also bit another child the same day and their slip was equally evasive. I went straight into school next day and spoke to the head. Said I wanted the slip amended and I didn't appreciate them brushing an assault under the carpet. They were very apologetic of course and their excuse was they didn't want to worry me before they had a chance to speak to me (erm they have my phone number ).I suggest you do the same.
rugbyfootballswimming Wed 08-Mar-17 07:32:43
I will speak to teacher this morning, you're right it may be that she didn't see exactly what happened, which might explain the vague note, but they do need to be keep proper records of these incidences.
Update - that's not good! I did wonder what they would have written if he'd been thumped!
Userone1 Wed 08-Mar-17 07:42:06
Agree some schools try to downplay it, rather than have to actually deal with it.
I was once called by school to go and collect ds from school (secondary) he needed to go to the hospital suspected broken arm, he 'fell during a game of football'
School forgot to tell me that actually he was pushed to the floor, got kicked in the head and was unconscious. The child who did this just happened to be the same boy that had been bullying ds.
smilingsarahb Wed 08-Mar-17 07:43:51
User one, the notes home are for the parents information as often the teacher isn't able to say something to the parent. They arent the first aid log (which again might not detail intent) nor are they the behaviour log which at our school for instance is the child's name and a tick against a number which has a meaning. Then each week we look at all the tick bob has been given to get a bigger picture than daily dicipline. So I don't think you can say that their record keeping is necessarily wrong. In an incident like this 3 bits of paperwork are filled out, plus the injured child is being comforted and the other child is Being disciplined whilst the rest of the class is being watched. It's entirely possible there are two sides to a story here too and it's not a closed point of communication. You pull out the note read it, have a question, ask the teacher, it's not a big deal. If it was a serious bump the op should have got a phone call, a description of what happened and been told the other child had been disciplined but I don't get the impression there was a bump, bruise or bleeding. I also kinda think if something says 'hit by rubber chicken' it's obvious that there was a person involved. Maybe the teacher was deliberately trying to make sure op didn't know it just seems a bit silly to do that to me as it would obviously backfire.
Userone1 Wed 08-Mar-17 07:50:06
Ok so if 3 or 100 additional things are filled out, I assume they would all contain the same info, otherwise it's not accurate and bit pointless
Userone1 Wed 08-Mar-17 07:58:38
Ops note didn't say 'hit by rubber chicken' it said 'bumped his head on rubber chicken'
irvineoneohone Wed 08-Mar-17 08:09:22
But I think it's always better for school to deal with these situations, without involving parents, if it's not a serious injury, isn't it?
I can sort of see what teacher was trying to do.
Yet, I think it's perfectly reasonable for parents to ask questions.
SilenceOfThePrams Wed 08-Mar-17 08:24:58
I used to have to keep our accident book in one workplace (with children).
For that kind of action, I would have to write two separate entries.
1. Bob was on the carpet with the other children, became agitated (possibly due to noise of class?) and hit out at the child sitting next to him, causing a split lip.
Action: Bob removed from situation, helped to calm down and encouraged to apologise.
Future learning: Bob to sit near TA, watch for signs of agitation and offer him the chance to leave the carpet before he needs to hit out. If carpet time is a regular trigger, consider offering Bon the option of sitting on a chair just beside the carpet instead, or using this time for extra 1:1 work as per action plan.
2. Johnny was sitting on the carpet with the other children, when the child beside him became agitated and hit him in the face.
Action taken: Johnny comforted, ice pack applied, note left for parents. Other child apologised to Johnny. Steps taken to reduce risk of reoccurrence.
Yes, children talk, but neither child's parents should be told about the other child's situation.
You should absolutely be told that it was a hit rather than a bump though.
rugbyfootballswimming Wed 08-Mar-17 09:26:05
So DH ended up taking DS to school this morning and just asked for clarification as note says one thing and DS is saying something else. DH said teacher was v apologetic and said that what DS said happened did happen. Bob was taken to head teacher immediately and they called his parents. DH said that the teacher implied they are having issues with Bob and it's been looked at by SLT - he also thought they are not really sure how to deal with him. However, no explanation about why note didn't say exactly what happened... it may be that the teacher didn't feel it was necessary, as there was no bump or bleeding etc.. I think I just need to let that bit go. but keep encouraging DS to play with other children!!
Userone1 Wed 08-Mar-17 11:40:14
I just hope if Bob decides to hit your ds on the head again and you tell school that Bob has done it again, that the teacher remembers the conversation about what actually happened and what was written.
Concerned about how school are dealing with a very physical child |
» Concerned about how school are dealing with a very physical child
Concerned about how school are dealing with a very physical child
rugbyfootballswimming Tue 07-Mar-17 21:19:31
My DS started school in September, so he's in reception, age 5. He made friends with a boy, let's call him Bob. In the first term my DS got hurt a couple of times by Bob. And my son occasionally tells me other things the boy has done to him, or said to him that aren't that nice.
So today, I get a note home saying that DS 'bumped his head on something' (won't say what as it's a little identifying). So I asked my DS what happened. Apparently Bob threw the thing they were playing with together at his head, this was in the classroom, in front of the teacher, who wrote the note. Should the teacher have clearly explained what happened in the note? I feel that it was possibly intentional to mislead me about what happened. Or am I over reacting? Should I speak with the teacher tomorrow?
Wolfiefan Tue 07-Mar-17 21:24:29
The teacher can't discuss another child with you and won't put that he threw something at your child. I would speak to school and say you are concerned. But you need to approach it by asking how they are safeguarding your child not how are they dealing with the other boy.
smilingsarahb Tue 07-Mar-17 21:34:59
A quick informal chat won't do any harm. Just pop you head round the door at the end of the day and say something like ' I wonder if you could fill me in a bit more about this bump yesterday' The start of the day isn't a good time to chat so if you don't pick up, call in. I'd doubt they would deliberately try and mislead you as children talk! They would know most parents would pull out the note and then ask their child if they were ok and what happened.
sirfredfredgeorge Tue 07-Mar-17 21:36:55
An accident report which said "bumped head on rubber chicken" when the incident is "rubber chicken hit head" are quite different injuries. So it is wrong to report that, so that's a bit strange.
But yes, I still think you're overreacting, the chance of a 5 yead old being accurate enough to make it an intentional act to hurt your DS - as opposed to throwing out in frustration / anger and happened to it is pretty slim. The school will certainly be managing the throwing of stuff, and a single incident is not worth too much thought.
Boiled7Up Tue 07-Mar-17 21:54:11
TBH it is unusual for one child to target another.
It is not uncommon for 2 5 year olds to indulge in a bit of play fighting... are you sure that Bob isn't going home and telling his mum a similar story?
kittybiscuits Tue 07-Mar-17 21:57:42
Ah Bob, yes. It is not okay for the teacher to be sketchy with the details. If your child was hit on the head by another child throwing an object at him, you should be told that, though not the identity of the thrower of course.
mrz Wed 08-Mar-17 05:52:09
The teacher doesn't have to name the child who threw the object (obviously your child is going to tell you) but they should have said "x was hit on the head by an object thrown by another child"
MooseBeTimeForSnow Wed 08-Mar-17 06:28:10
Boiled. Really? My 5 year old DS was approached by a classmate and pushed over. My son was in the line waiting for his bus and their teacher was stood right next to him. It was unprovoked and deliberate and he flatly refused to apologise.
irvineoneohone Wed 08-Mar-17 06:45:07
This happened to my ds. Of course ds told me x did it on purpose. I didn't think so. Also I asked him what happened, and he told me that x was told off by the teacher. They are still friends after 3/4 years.
If this dc is particularly physical with your ds, maybe you should tell the teacher about your concern, but I think these things happen with young children who cannot communicate effectively yet.
rugbyfootballswimming Wed 08-Mar-17 06:45:17
Thanks for replies. I guess I'm really wondering whether the teacher should have said on the note what actually happened, rather than being v vague, seems she probably should have. Bob has form for doing similar things, not just with my child (I think there was a bit of arguing over the toy between my son and Bob but that doesn't excuse throwing a hard object at someone's head, not at 5, surely). But the fact she wasn't clear (without naming the child) makes me wonder why...
Merlin40 Wed 08-Mar-17 06:48:27
Is it usual to send notes re 'injuries' rather than a phone call in primary (I'm secondary and we would always phone to report any kind of head injury)?
I wouldn't expect much more info re the other child but I would expect details of what actually happened, maybe the class teacher is assuming you'll pop in this morning to explain? Or would be happy to explain more if asked?
Merlin40 Wed 08-Mar-17 06:49:22
And there could be all sorts going on with Bob that you aren't aware of, home circumstances or SEN, so I would reserve judgement.
irvineoneohone Wed 08-Mar-17 06:56:35
My ds once had a cut on his forehead.(tiny, but bleeding) The school/teacher didn't even tell me what happened. (not even a note.)
It was done by a child threw wooden bricks. Ds said ta took him to first aid, put a plaster. That was it. It didn't even occurred to me to question teacher. I thought these things(accidents) happen. Maybe I was too relaxed?
Believeitornot Wed 08-Mar-17 07:00:14
Maybe she didn't see exactly what happened.... while she may have been there, she might have had her attention elsewhere.
School is a bit of an adjustment as a parent. You can't expect to have as much detail on things and you won't know the full details as to what is going on in class.
If however there are a few incidences then you can speak to the teacher about it and ask her to keep an eye out.
Userone1 Wed 08-Mar-17 07:12:28
I think teachers are suppose to log incidents hence the note home.
If the note sent home isn't accurate, then neither is the log.
If 'bob' has been 
hurting lots of children and the school are failing to give accurate description of incidents, then 'bob's' behaviour will go unnoticed.
Do 'Bob' a favour and ask for an accurate account to be written. If Bob is constantly hurting others, he needs some help and other children also need to be kept safe.
UpdateRequired Wed 08-Mar-17 07:25:59
Ds's school is notorious for downplaying this sort of thing. A few months ago ds was punched in the face by a classmate and ended up with a split lip. The accident slip said 'bump to the lip'. The child who did it also bit another child the same day and their slip was equally evasive. I went straight into school next day and spoke to the head. Said I wanted the slip amended and I didn't appreciate them brushing an assault under the carpet. They were very apologetic of course and their excuse was they didn't want to worry me before they had a chance to speak to me (erm they have my phone number ).I suggest you do the same.
rugbyfootballswimming Wed 08-Mar-17 07:32:43
I will speak to teacher this morning, you're right it may be that she didn't see exactly what happened, which might explain the vague note, but they do need to be keep proper records of these incidences.
Update - that's not good! I did wonder what they would have written if he'd been thumped!
Userone1 Wed 08-Mar-17 07:42:06
Agree some schools try to downplay it, rather than have to actually deal with it.
I was once called by school to go and collect ds from school (secondary) he needed to go to the hospital suspected broken arm, he 'fell during a game of football'
School forgot to tell me that actually he was pushed to the floor, got kicked in the head and was unconscious. The child who did this just happened to be the same boy that had been bullying ds.
smilingsarahb Wed 08-Mar-17 07:43:51
User one, the notes home are for the parents information as often the teacher isn't able to say something to the parent. They arent the first aid log (which again might not detail intent) nor are they the behaviour log which at our school for instance is the child's name and a tick against a number which has a meaning. Then each week we look at all the tick bob has been given to get a bigger picture than daily dicipline. So I don't think you can say that their record keeping is necessarily wrong. In an incident like this 3 bits of paperwork are filled out, plus the injured child is being comforted and the other child is Being disciplined whilst the rest of the class is being watched. It's entirely possible there are two sides to a story here too and it's not a closed point of communication. You pull out the note read it, have a question, ask the teacher, it's not a big deal. If it was a serious bump the op should have got a phone call, a description of what happened and been told the other child had been disciplined but I don't get the impression there was a bump, bruise or bleeding. I also kinda think if something says 'hit by rubber chicken' it's obvious that there was a person involved. Maybe the teacher was deliberately trying to make sure op didn't know it just seems a bit silly to do that to me as it would obviously backfire.
Userone1 Wed 08-Mar-17 07:50:06
Ok so if 3 or 100 additional things are filled out, I assume they would all contain the same info, otherwise it's not accurate and bit pointless
Userone1 Wed 08-Mar-17 07:58:38
Ops note didn't say 'hit by rubber chicken' it said 'bumped his head on rubber chicken'
irvineoneohone Wed 08-Mar-17 08:09:22
But I think it's always better for school to deal with these situations, without involving parents, if it's not a serious injury, isn't it?
I can sort of see what teacher was trying to do.
Yet, I think it's perfectly reasonable for parents to ask questions.
SilenceOfThePrams Wed 08-Mar-17 08:24:58
I used to have to keep our accident book in one workplace (with children).
For that kind of action, I would have to write two separate entries.
1. Bob was on the carpet with the other children, became agitated (possibly due to noise of class?) and hit out at the child sitting next to him, causing a split lip.
Action: Bob removed from situation, helped to calm down and encouraged to apologise.
Future learning: Bob to sit near TA, watch for signs of agitation and offer him the chance to leave the carpet before he needs to hit out. If carpet time is a regular trigger, consider offering Bon the option of sitting on a chair just beside the carpet instead, or using this time for extra 1:1 work as per action plan.
2. Johnny was sitting on the carpet with the other children, when the child beside him became agitated and hit him in the face.
Action taken: Johnny comforted, ice pack applied, note left for parents. Other child apologised to Johnny. Steps taken to reduce risk of reoccurrence.
Yes, children talk, but neither child's parents should be told about the other child's situation.
You should absolutely be told that it was a hit rather than a bump though.
rugbyfootballswimming Wed 08-Mar-17 09:26:05
So DH ended up taking DS to school this morning and just asked for clarification as note says one thing and DS is saying something else. DH said teacher was v apologetic and said that what DS said happened did happen. Bob was taken to head teacher immediately and they called his parents. DH said that the teacher implied they are having issues with Bob and it's been looked at by SLT - he also thought they are not really sure how to deal with him. However, no explanation about why note didn't say exactly what happened... it may be that the teacher didn't feel it was necessary, as there was no bump or bleeding etc.. I think I just need to let that bit go. but keep encouraging DS to play with other children!!
Userone1 Wed 08-Mar-17 11:40:14
I just hope if Bob decides to hit your ds on the head again and you tell school that Bob has done it again, that the teacher remembers the conversation about what actually happened and what was written.