One of the dozen - Page 7 - Advanced Driving Hub
Postby Silk » Mon May 16, 2016 1:20 pm
Imsensible wrote: The attitude seems to be that cyclists are somehow second class citizens.
It's not an attitude, it's a fact. The roads are there primarily for motor vehicles; which makes cyclists secondary users. HTH
Yep, it definitely helps. It confirms that you are indeed an idiot.
Whether or not I'm an idiot is immaterial. Roads are primarily for motor vehicles, with some being for motor vehicle only - that's a simple fact. You're not required to like it. Calling me names will not change it.
Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Mon May 16, 2016 1:37 pm
Roads are maintained and built to carry motor vehicle traffic, but all are free to use them, subject to certain constraints - one of which you mention above.
IIRC you are, or were, an Observer for the IAM. Do you teach your candidates this same intolerant attitude to other types of road user? For example, do you teach them to expect cyclists to, as you put it, "voluntarily move into the ditch to make way for them"? How do you coach them to encourage this self-abasement? By aggressive use of the horn, perhaps?
Postby Horse » Mon May 16, 2016 2:05 pm
FWIW, consider that pedestrians and cyclists can use the roads unlicensed and uninsured, without any ongoing costs, apart from using motorways. They have a right to use them.
Motorists however, do not have those rights. They can have permission to gain access and use a vehicle removed.
So how does the case for 'roads for motor vehicles' stand up then?
Postby Silk » Mon May 16, 2016 4:44 pm
You also need to look up the word "voluntarily". I'm just glad I didn't end up with someone like you for an associate. I'd most likely have passed you over to one of our more senior people, authorised to use corporal punishment.
Postby Silk » Mon May 16, 2016 4:48 pm
Horse wrote: So how does the case for 'roads for motor vehicles' stand up then?
If there were no motor vehicles, we simply wouldn't have the roads we have today. It's what they were/are designed for. Secondary road users are welcome to use these roads, but on the understanding that they have to respect primary users. Nothing wrong with that.
Postby Horse » Mon May 16, 2016 5:48 pm
If there were no motor vehicles, we simply wouldn't have the roads we have today.
What, do you mean well-constructed, smooth-surfaced and well-drained direct routes between major conurbations?
Considering that we still use routes laid out by the Romans, and some surfaces laid by them are still in existence, either you know something about their use of vehicles which has been well hushed-up elsewhere, or you're wrong
Blackstone Edge, Rishworth Moor in Greater Manchester
And if you weren't aware of this aspect of history, then I'm very sorry for ridiculing you
Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Mon May 16, 2016 6:27 pm
Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Mon May 16, 2016 6:32 pm
Lovely that - I remember walking along it on the Pennine Way, reading in my guide book about Daniel Defoe using it nearly 400 years ago, and Lady Celia Fiennes too.
It's not Roman, though, reportedly.
Postby Silk » Mon May 16, 2016 7:32 pm
Nice pictures. Point being?
Postby Horse » Mon May 16, 2016 7:34 pm
Blimey - only 280 years old. So well into the era of the motor vehicle.
One of the dozen - Page 7 - Advanced Driving Hub
Postby Silk » Mon May 16, 2016 1:20 pm
Imsensible wrote: The attitude seems to be that cyclists are somehow second class citizens.
It's not an attitude, it's a fact. The roads are there primarily for motor vehicles; which makes cyclists secondary users. HTH
Yep, it definitely helps. It confirms that you are indeed an idiot.
Whether or not I'm an idiot is immaterial. Roads are primarily for motor vehicles, with some being for motor vehicle only - that's a simple fact. You're not required to like it. Calling me names will not change it.
Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Mon May 16, 2016 1:37 pm
Roads are maintained and built to carry motor vehicle traffic, but all are free to use them, subject to certain constraints - one of which you mention above.
IIRC you are, or were, an Observer for the IAM. Do you teach your candidates this same intolerant attitude to other types of road user? For example, do you teach them to expect cyclists to, as you put it, "voluntarily move into the ditch to make way for them"? How do you coach them to encourage this self-abasement? By aggressive use of the horn, perhaps?
Postby Horse » Mon May 16, 2016 2:05 pm
FWIW, consider that pedestrians and cyclists can use the roads unlicensed and uninsured, without any ongoing costs, apart from using motorways. They have a right to use them.
Motorists however, do not have those rights. They can have permission to gain access and use a vehicle removed.
So how does the case for 'roads for motor vehicles' stand up then?
Postby Silk » Mon May 16, 2016 4:44 pm
You also need to look up the word "voluntarily". I'm just
 glad I didn't end up with someone like you for an associate. I'd most likely have passed you over to one of our more senior people, authorised to use corporal punishment.
Postby Silk » Mon May 16, 2016 4:48 pm
Horse wrote: So how does the case for 'roads for motor vehicles' stand up then?
If there were no motor vehicles, we simply wouldn't have the roads we have today. It's what they were/are designed for. Secondary road users are welcome to use these roads, but on the understanding that they have to respect primary users. Nothing wrong with that.
Postby Horse » Mon May 16, 2016 5:48 pm
If there were no motor vehicles, we simply wouldn't have the roads we have today.
What, do you mean well-constructed, smooth-surfaced and well-drained direct routes between major conurbations?
Considering that we still use routes laid out by the Romans, and some surfaces laid by them are still in existence, either you know something about their use of vehicles which has been well hushed-up elsewhere, or you're wrong
Blackstone Edge, Rishworth Moor in Greater Manchester
And if you weren't aware of this aspect of history, then I'm very sorry for ridiculing you
Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Mon May 16, 2016 6:27 pm
Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Mon May 16, 2016 6:32 pm
Lovely that - I remember walking along it on the Pennine Way, reading in my guide book about Daniel Defoe using it nearly 400 years ago, and Lady Celia Fiennes too.
It's not Roman, though, reportedly.
Postby Silk » Mon May 16, 2016 7:32 pm
Nice pictures. Point being?
Postby Horse » Mon May 16, 2016 7:34 pm
Blimey - only 280 years old. So well into the era of the motor vehicle.