And Sometimes Tea: Screaming babies at Mass--when worldviews collide
You can't call yourself a pro-lifer and refuse to welcome babies at Mass. If the message you send is "Nice job not contracepting or aborting, we'll see you in 4 or 5 years when God can tolerate that screaming slug you brought into this world" you are not pro-life.And you probably distract people at Mass too. Heck, maybe I don't like your perfume or the color of your coat. So can I kick you out? Should we kick out the old people who talk to themselves? That baby is a baptized Christian, just like you. In the eyes of the Church, you are EQUALS.
There's a difference between a baby being fussy and a baby screaming. I often wonder if those who complain about screaming babies are really clued into the difference. I've never seen a parent just sit in the pew and ignore a child who is out and out screaming, but I've often heard children who let out the occasional whoop of one sort or another at odd moments. And in that case, what can you do? The bottom line for me is that I cannot control the behavior of the other folks in church...and if I spend my time focussed on it, that's my fault. Offer it up and move on. After all, it isn't about me.
Agreed, Deirdre!Will--agree with you, too! I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've heard a baby absolutely screaming at Mass, and usually the parents were trying to figure out an exit route. Maybe there are people who really don't remove a screaming infant, but I've never encountered any.(And I just remembered that I owe you an email about some Vikings!!) :)
When I suggested (in Deacon Kandra's thread) that parents could leave particularly difficult babies or toddlers at home, I was thinking in terms of giving the PARENTS a break from constantly struggling to control the child, and allowing THEM to enjoy a little more peace and a little less anxiety and self-consciousness at Mass. I did not in any way mean to imply that babies or toddlers don't belong at Sunday Mass or that they aren't welcome until they reach the age of reason. Nor did I mean to imply that the Mass is simply "pious entertainment for adults" that cannot tolerate distraction. I was simply trying to reassure parents who think they MUST bring their child every single Sunday from birth lest they "never learn to behave in church" that this is not necessarily the case. (It wasn't the case with me.) You can give the child (and yourself) a break when they are young, and you are not yet obligated under pain of mortal sin to bring them to Mass, without doing them any harm. That's assuming, of course, that you CAN safely leave them at home, or can attend a different Mass than your spouse; I know many parents cannot do this and they should not hesitate to bring their children. Elaine
THANK YOU, Erin! I have to say, this comment in particular:"After so many years of this, I have gotten to the point where I just leave whereby denying myself reception of the Blessed Sacrament..."reminded me of one of the confrontation passages in The Great Divorce - "I'd rather be damned than go along with you. I came here to get my rights, see?"
"You can't call yourself a pro-lifer and refuse to welcome babies at Mass."That should be some kind of name (like the familiar "Godwin's Law" for Nazi analogies) for comments that ratchet up the debate this quickly. The very first comment must be some kind of record. Being pro-life does not have to mean being sentimental about babies.
One is always pleased to see parents bringing their babies to Mass. And one is equally pleased to see a parent discreetly taking the little booger outside or to the scream room when appropriate. I know some parents feel embarrassed about taking the infant away briefly, but they shouldn't be; they are doing everything exactly right, and God bless them.And, hey, who knows -- that little screamer might be the Bishop of Rome someday!One group who are not appreciated enough in our parish are teenagers -- they really are good in Mass, and are generous with their service on the altar. And shame, shame, shame on the old twits who complain about them!
"After so many years of this, I have gotten to the point where I just leave whereby denying myself Reception of the Blessed sacraments....I have every right to be at Mass..."Anyone else think of one of the Ghost conversations in The Great Divorce? "Tell them I'm not coming, see? I'd rather be damned than go along with you. I came here to get my rights, see?"
I think the distraction has more to do with one's self than it does with the babies...You can't expect to settle yourself into a prayerful mood after you get to Mass, that process should begin the moment you wake up on Sunday morning. There are plenty of things to distract us at Mass, babies are just one of them. It's our resposibility to collect ourselves. Some days are eaiser than others, but it's not impossible.I think the bigest problem is... A lot of Catholics go to Mass because they have to go, not because they love Jesus. It's more cultural than a relationship. Jesus said, "Let the childern come to me" who are we to deny them Jesus? Anyway that's my 2cents
Jaw-dropping...I don't even. Rebecca
Oh, my baby has screamed at Mass. He has gallstones and attacks would come out of nowhere, often in the middle of a feed. I could either get up immediately and flash everyone or put myself together as quickly as possible and then stand up. Standing was often all it took, but I would leave if it didn't. It just might take a few minutes to get all the kids out. Usually, though, the baby just grouses a little or happily "sings", so I wait a little to see what will happen (praise God the gallstones aren't causing much of a problem now). April 21, 2013 at 3:26 PM
I love hearing the occasional "whoop", or assorted "googling" or other vocalizing at Mass. This tells me that God wants the world to continue.What I can't abide and I won't be apologetic about it, is a baby in full throated screaming meltdown mode. In that case the child is in distress, and the parents appear to be ignoring him or her so they can continue their Mass experience. The child needs help mom and/or dad. Take the child out, figure out what's wrong and DEAL with it!The other pet peeve is the terrible two who is having a tantrum. This sort of behavior should earn an immediate time out. Out of the church proper and preferably in a place that is sound-proofed.Other than those two cases, I'm really tolerant of children in Mass. Much more tolerant than I was of my children when they were small.
I agree with Elaine. As a parent, I would strongly prefer not to bring my small children to mass so I can enjoy a peaceful mass free from distraction and being so self-conscious about their noises. If other people want to bring their kids to mass, that's fine. I certainly don't think small children "don't belong" at mass. I just resent being told that I HAVE to bring my kids to mass. April 22, 2013 at 12:30 PM
And Sometimes Tea: Screaming babies at Mass--when worldviews collide
You can't call yourself a pro-lifer and refuse to welcome babies at Mass. If the message you send is "Nice job not contracepting or aborting, we'll see you in 4 or 5 years when God can tolerate that screaming slug you brought into this world" you are not pro-life.And you probably distract people at Mass too. Heck, maybe I don't like your perfume or the color of your coat. So can I kick you out? Should we kick out the old people who talk to themselves? That baby is a baptized Christian, just like you. In the eyes of the Church, you are EQUALS.
There's a difference between a baby being fussy and a baby screaming. I often wonder if those who complain about screaming babies are really clued into the difference. I've never seen a parent just sit in the pew and ignore a child who is out and out screaming, but I've often heard children who let out the occasional whoop of one sort or another at odd moments. And in that case, what can you do? The bottom line for me is that I cannot control the behavior of the other folks in church...and if I spend my time focussed on it, that's my fault. Offer it up and move on. After all, it isn't about me.
Agreed, Deirdre!Will--agree with you, too! I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've heard a baby absolutely screaming at Mass, and usually the parents were trying to figure out an exit route. Maybe there are people who really don't remove a screaming infant, but I've never encountered any.(And I just remembered that I owe you an email about some Vikings!!) :)
When I suggested (in Deacon Kandra's thread) that parents could leave particularly difficult babies or toddlers at home, I was thinking in terms of giving the PARENTS a break from constantly struggling to control the child, and allowing THEM to enjoy a little more peace and a little less anxiety and self-consciousness at Mass. I did not in any way mean to imply that babies or toddlers don't belong at Sunday Mass or that they aren't welcome until they reach the age of reason. Nor did I mean to imply that the Mass is simply "pious entertainment for adults" that cannot tolerate distraction. I was simply trying to reassure parents who think they MUST bring their child every single Sunday from birth lest they "never learn to behave in church" that this is not necessarily the case. (It wasn't the case with me.) You can give the child (and yourself) a break when they are young, and you are not yet obligated under pain of mortal sin to bring them to Mass, without doing them any harm. That's assuming, of course, that you CAN safely leave them at home, or can attend a different Mass than your spouse; I know many parents cannot do this and they should not hesitate to bring their children. Elaine
THANK YOU, Erin! I have to say, this comment in particular:"After so many years of this, I have gotten to the point where I just leave whereby denying myself reception of the Blessed Sacrament..."reminded me of one of the confrontation passages in The Great Divorce - "I'd rather be damned than go along with you. I came here to get my rights, see?"
"You can't call yourself a pro-lifer and refuse to welcome babies at Mass."That should be some kind of name (like the familiar "Godwin's Law" for Nazi analogies) for comments that ratchet up the debate this quickly. The very first comment must be some kind of record. Being pro-life does not have to mean being sentimental about babies.
One is al
ways pleased to see parents bringing their babies to Mass. And one is equally pleased to see a parent discreetly taking the little booger outside or to the scream room when appropriate. I know some parents feel embarrassed about taking the infant away briefly, but they shouldn't be; they are doing everything exactly right, and God bless them.And, hey, who knows -- that little screamer might be the Bishop of Rome someday!One group who are not appreciated enough in our parish are teenagers -- they really are good in Mass, and are generous with their service on the altar. And shame, shame, shame on the old twits who complain about them!
"After so many years of this, I have gotten to the point where I just leave whereby denying myself Reception of the Blessed sacraments....I have every right to be at Mass..."Anyone else think of one of the Ghost conversations in The Great Divorce? "Tell them I'm not coming, see? I'd rather be damned than go along with you. I came here to get my rights, see?"
I think the distraction has more to do with one's self than it does with the babies...You can't expect to settle yourself into a prayerful mood after you get to Mass, that process should begin the moment you wake up on Sunday morning. There are plenty of things to distract us at Mass, babies are just one of them. It's our resposibility to collect ourselves. Some days are eaiser than others, but it's not impossible.I think the bigest problem is... A lot of Catholics go to Mass because they have to go, not because they love Jesus. It's more cultural than a relationship. Jesus said, "Let the childern come to me" who are we to deny them Jesus? Anyway that's my 2cents
Jaw-dropping...I don't even. Rebecca
Oh, my baby has screamed at Mass. He has gallstones and attacks would come out of nowhere, often in the middle of a feed. I could either get up immediately and flash everyone or put myself together as quickly as possible and then stand up. Standing was often all it took, but I would leave if it didn't. It just might take a few minutes to get all the kids out. Usually, though, the baby just grouses a little or happily "sings", so I wait a little to see what will happen (praise God the gallstones aren't causing much of a problem now). April 21, 2013 at 3:26 PM
I love hearing the occasional "whoop", or assorted "googling" or other vocalizing at Mass. This tells me that God wants the world to continue.What I can't abide and I won't be apologetic about it, is a baby in full throated screaming meltdown mode. In that case the child is in distress, and the parents appear to be ignoring him or her so they can continue their Mass experience. The child needs help mom and/or dad. Take the child out, figure out what's wrong and DEAL with it!The other pet peeve is the terrible two who is having a tantrum. This sort of behavior should earn an immediate time out. Out of the church proper and preferably in a place that is sound-proofed.Other than those two cases, I'm really tolerant of children in Mass. Much more tolerant than I was of my children when they were small.
I agree with Elaine. As a parent, I would strongly prefer not to bring my small children to mass so I can enjoy a peaceful mass free from distraction and being so self-conscious about their noises. If other people want to bring their kids to mass, that's fine. I certainly don't think small children "don't belong" at mass. I just resent being told that I HAVE to bring my kids to mass. April 22, 2013 at 12:30 PM