Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:31 am Post subject: I've decided to try Emacs.
Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge?_________________"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: It'll turn you into a total fag. Even the name is faggy._________________Your argument is invalid.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:44 am Post subject: You'll need 18 fingers._________________The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow. Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: notageek wrote:	You'll need 18 fingers.	That sounds about right._________________ juniper wrote:	you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.	Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: dmitchell wrote:	It'll turn you into a total fag. Even the name is faggy.	And that picture of Wagner isn't? Looks like he was out for a round of golf and just noticed how nicely his caddy's knickers fit when he's retrieving a ball.
Seriously: it's that bad?_________________"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46Last edited by Bones McCracker on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:08 am Post subject: Instead of us telling you, why don't you come back and tell us in a few days. I'm sure you'll be able to put it more eloquently than anyone else here._________________The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow. Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:16 am Post subject: notageek wrote:	Instead of us telling you, why don't you come back and tell us in a few days. I'm sure you'll be able to put it more eloquently than anyone else here.	I bet you've never even used it. And everybody knows if it doesn't have pointy-clicky stuff, dmitchell won't touch it. _________________"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:21 am Post subject: I'm in a team, which predominantly uses emacs. I was asked by my manager to ensure my code is readable in emacs. Yes, I have used emacs._________________The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow. Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:53 am Post subject: notageek wrote:	I'm in a team, which predominantly uses emacs. I was asked by my manager to ensure my code is readable in emacs. Yes, I have used emacs.	They predominately use emacs, but you gotta be different, right?_________________"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:57 am Post subject: I've been using vi. Its simpler, quicker to use. I don't have to be a finger gymnast to use an editor._________________The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow. Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: notageek wrote:	I've been using vi. Its simpler, quicker to use. I don't have to be a finger gymnast to use an editor.	My experiences exactly, although I admit it's been about a decade since I've touched emacs._________________ juniper wrote:	you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.	Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: I use nano, its been about 6~ years since ive used a distro that doesn't contain it as standard and takes all of 2minutes to install if im on bsd. It works for editing config files very well. Why waste an hour learning emacs when its sooo bad?
When im coding I use an IDE (eclipse/aptana) as I didnt spend $1000+ on my laptop to use 1% of its CPU and RAM, I spent $1000+ to use a nice fully featured DE with whatever apps I want that make my life as a coder easier.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: aidanjt wrote:	notageek wrote:	I've been using vi. Its simpler, quicker to use. I don't have to be a finger gymnast to use an editor.	My experiences exactly, although I admit it's been about a decade since I've touched emacs.	same keybindings no doubt.
Emacs seems to have more support (especially if you use tex), but I prefer vim. i just like have jklh doing the right thing. commands aren't complicated in vim.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: Crooksey wrote:	I use nano, its been about 6~ years since ive used a distro that doesn't contain it as standard and takes all of 2minutes to install if im on bsd. It works for editing config files very well. Why waste an hour learning emacs when its sooo bad?
When im coding I use an IDE (eclipse/aptana) as I didnt spend $1000+ on my laptop to use 1% of its CPU and RAM, I spent $1000+ to use a nice fully featured DE with whatever apps I want that make my life as a coder easier.	that's why i use gvim.
i do mostly python and latex. what's better for python than gvim Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: juniper wrote:	I prefer vim. i just like have jklh doing the right thing. commands aren't complicated in vim.	you mean entering jklh
because everything else is incredible stupid._________________ AidanJT wrote:	Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: energyman76b wrote:	you mean entering jklh
because everything else is incredible stupid.	^ Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: seriously
emacs was made for people with manly keyboards. If you only have a girly 101 or 102 key keyboard - that is not emacs fault. As a truely great program emacs is able to deal with such sub par hardware.
vi(m) on the other hand just demands incredible amounts of braindamage. As soons as the victim is mostly braindead, its 'modes' and assorted crap are looking great and vi(m) like the best editor ever. A victim of vi(m) at that stage should be soothed with sweet words while the vetinary prepares for the mercy killing._________________ AidanJT wrote:	Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: Quote:	When im coding I use an IDE (eclipse/aptana) as I didnt spend $1000+ on my laptop to use 1% of its CPU and RAM, I spent $1000+ to use a nice fully featured DE with whatever apps I want that make my life as a coder easier.	I currently program in eiffel with the eiffelstudio, which is similar to eclipse. I don't understand why such an environment should make your life as a coder easier. I mean one important thing is syntax highlighting which vim etc support of course. Of all engineering disciplines maybe software is the most buggiest from all, for example a hardware failure is very rarely but system- or program crashes do happen all the time, so why write programs that are way more complex but don't provide any thing absolute necessary, or do someone believe a vim-coder is not as good as a eclipse-coder?!
I have spend more then $1000 on my laptop and I also want some nice stuff like eyecandy etc, but even the best laptops today don't have enough RAM/CPU to for example factorize large numbers (I admit, not that important, but funny ) or other large computations. Graphic things like games or simulations are not the same as (in my opinion very senseless and disturbing) window buttons or other GUI stuff. I think the reason for so much GUI-stuff is that every non computer-geek or whatever can use a computer, but it doesn't provide anything that CLI don't, or not? Another thing is that this stuff gets more and more abstract and therefore makes it harder to understand a computer (hardware and OS). by the way emacs should be very good for lisp-programming...
@crooksey, no offense if it seems so Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: Quote:	vi(m) on the other hand just demands incredible amounts of braindamage.	why ?
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: I've used nano for any type of configuration file changes, for anything more complex than that I turn to jEdit.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: BK, try org-mode What I see as EMACS killer features ( you could also read: features that Vi(M) doesn't have or aren't as good):
org-mode. Period. Who hasn't tried, cannot understand. Imagine making a full LaTeX Beamer presentation with just a few lines while being updated on the agenda for the presentation topics
dired - imagine working with file names like with written text
daemon mode - I can have several emacsclients open on several desktops, all sharing the same set of buffers which I can display and hide in different layouts. Using emacs in dameon mode + emacsclient is also a lot less resource expensive and starts up very fast.
various minor and major modes - simplifying common tasks
working with external processes in inferior buffers
as ELisp is the common programming interface for most extensions, extending them is quite consistent with all the nice hooks and documentation
I still use ViM whenever I just need to quickly edit or display some configuration file, just to keep my skills up.
IMHO, Vi(M) is a great text editor, but EMACS is a great text writer. What I mean is that e.g. writing some LaTeX file from scratch in vim may require more keystrokes than in Emacs, because EMACS has more macros for various things (org-mode + auctex > vim-latex), but changing a few things once the file is written may be quicker in vim with all the cool key-combo shortcuts.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs.
BoneKracker wrote:	Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge?	Remember Linus' warning: Linus wrote:	In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people.	The same thing applies to people who use and develop emacs.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs.
NotQuiteSane wrote:	BoneKracker wrote:	Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge?	Remember Linus' warning: Linus wrote:	In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people.	The same thing applies to people who use and develop emacs.
NQS	Steve Jobs did drugs. Linus didn't. There you go. Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs.
Prenj wrote:	Steve Jobs did drugs. Linus didn't. There you go. Are you implying that apple is useful for something other than seperating idiots from their money?
There is nothing else apple has ever done that couldn't be done better with what already existed.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs.
NotQuiteSane wrote:	Prenj wrote:	Steve Jobs did drugs. Linus didn't. There you go. Are you implying that apple is useful for something other than seperating idiots from their money?
NQS	It is also useful to separate aspergers from the rest. Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:31 am Post subject: I've decided to try Emacs.
Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge?_________________"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: It'll turn you into a total fag. Even the name is faggy._________________Your argument is invalid.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:44 am Post subject: You'll need 18 fingers._________________The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow. Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: notageek wrote:	You'll need 18 fingers.	That sounds about right._________________ juniper wrote:	you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.	Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: dmitchell wrote:	It'll turn you into a total fag. Even the name is faggy.	And that picture of Wagner isn't? Looks like he was out for a round of golf and just noticed how nicely his caddy's knickers fit when he's retrieving a ball.
Seriously: it's that bad?_________________"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46Last edited by Bones McCracker on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:08 am Post subject: Instead of us telling you, why don't you come back and tell us in a few days. I'm sure you'll be able to put it more eloquently than anyone else here._________________The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow. Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:16 am Post subject: notageek wrote:	Instead of us telling you, why don't you come back and tell us in a few days. I'm sure you'll be able to put it more eloquently than anyone else here.	I bet you've never even used it. And everybody knows if it doesn't have pointy-clicky stuff, dmitchell won't touch it. _________________"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:21 am Post subject: I'm in a team, which predominantly uses emacs. I was asked by my manager to ensure my code is readable in emacs. Yes, I have used emacs._________________The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow. Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:53 am Post subject: notageek wrote:	I'm in a team, which predominantly uses emacs. I was asked by my manager to ensure my code is readable in emacs. Yes, I have used emacs.	They predominately use emacs, but you gotta be different, right?_________________"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:57 am Post subject: I've been using vi. Its simpler, quicker to use. I don't have to be a finger gymnast to use an editor._________________The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow. Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: notageek wrote:	I've been using vi. Its simpler, quicker to use. I don't have to be a finger gymnast to use an editor.	My experiences exactly, although I admit it's been about a decade since I've touched emacs._________________ juniper wrote:	you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.	Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: I use nano, its been about 6~ years since ive used a distro that doesn't contain it as standard and takes all of 2minutes to install if im on bsd. It works for editing config files very well. Why waste an hour learning emacs when its sooo bad?
When im coding I use an IDE (eclipse/aptana) as I didnt spend $1000+ on my laptop to use 1% of its CPU and RAM, I spent $1000+ to use a nice fully featured DE with whatever apps I want that make my life as a coder easier.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: aidanjt wrote:	notageek wrote:	I've been using vi. Its simpler, quicker to use. I don't have to be a finger gymnast to use an editor.	My experiences exactly, although I admit it's been about a decade since I've touched emacs.	same keybindings no doubt.
Emacs seems to have more support (especially if you use tex), but I prefer vim. i just like have jklh doing the right thing. commands aren't complicated in vim.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: Crooksey wrote:	I use nano, its been about 6~ years since ive used a distro that doesn't contain it as standard and takes all of 2minutes to install if im on bsd. It works for editing config files very well. Why waste an hour learning emacs when its sooo bad?
When im coding I use an IDE (eclipse/aptana) as I didnt spend $1000+ on my laptop to use 1% of its CPU and RAM, I spent $1000+ to use a nice fully featured DE with whatever apps I want that make my life as a coder easier.	that's why i use gvim.
i do mostly python and latex. what's better for python than gvim Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: juniper wrote:	I prefer vim. i just like have jklh doing the right thing. commands aren't complicated in vim.	you mean entering jklh
because everything else is incredible stupid._________________ AidanJT wrote:	Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvinc
ing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: energyman76b wrote:	you mean entering jklh
because everything else is incredible stupid.	^ Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: seriously
emacs was made for people with manly keyboards. If you only have a girly 101 or 102 key keyboard - that is not emacs fault. As a truely great program emacs is able to deal with such sub par hardware.
vi(m) on the other hand just demands incredible amounts of braindamage. As soons as the victim is mostly braindead, its 'modes' and assorted crap are looking great and vi(m) like the best editor ever. A victim of vi(m) at that stage should be soothed with sweet words while the vetinary prepares for the mercy killing._________________ AidanJT wrote:	Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: Quote:	When im coding I use an IDE (eclipse/aptana) as I didnt spend $1000+ on my laptop to use 1% of its CPU and RAM, I spent $1000+ to use a nice fully featured DE with whatever apps I want that make my life as a coder easier.	I currently program in eiffel with the eiffelstudio, which is similar to eclipse. I don't understand why such an environment should make your life as a coder easier. I mean one important thing is syntax highlighting which vim etc support of course. Of all engineering disciplines maybe software is the most buggiest from all, for example a hardware failure is very rarely but system- or program crashes do happen all the time, so why write programs that are way more complex but don't provide any thing absolute necessary, or do someone believe a vim-coder is not as good as a eclipse-coder?!
I have spend more then $1000 on my laptop and I also want some nice stuff like eyecandy etc, but even the best laptops today don't have enough RAM/CPU to for example factorize large numbers (I admit, not that important, but funny ) or other large computations. Graphic things like games or simulations are not the same as (in my opinion very senseless and disturbing) window buttons or other GUI stuff. I think the reason for so much GUI-stuff is that every non computer-geek or whatever can use a computer, but it doesn't provide anything that CLI don't, or not? Another thing is that this stuff gets more and more abstract and therefore makes it harder to understand a computer (hardware and OS). by the way emacs should be very good for lisp-programming...
@crooksey, no offense if it seems so Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: Quote:	vi(m) on the other hand just demands incredible amounts of braindamage.	why ?
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: I've used nano for any type of configuration file changes, for anything more complex than that I turn to jEdit.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: BK, try org-mode What I see as EMACS killer features ( you could also read: features that Vi(M) doesn't have or aren't as good):
org-mode. Period. Who hasn't tried, cannot understand. Imagine making a full LaTeX Beamer presentation with just a few lines while being updated on the agenda for the presentation topics
dired - imagine working with file names like with written text
daemon mode - I can have several emacsclients open on several desktops, all sharing the same set of buffers which I can display and hide in different layouts. Using emacs in dameon mode + emacsclient is also a lot less resource expensive and starts up very fast.
various minor and major modes - simplifying common tasks
working with external processes in inferior buffers
as ELisp is the common programming interface for most extensions, extending them is quite consistent with all the nice hooks and documentation
I still use ViM whenever I just need to quickly edit or display some configuration file, just to keep my skills up.
IMHO, Vi(M) is a great text editor, but EMACS is a great text writer. What I mean is that e.g. writing some LaTeX file from scratch in vim may require more keystrokes than in Emacs, because EMACS has more macros for various things (org-mode + auctex > vim-latex), but changing a few things once the file is written may be quicker in vim with all the cool key-combo shortcuts.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs.
BoneKracker wrote:	Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge?	Remember Linus' warning: Linus wrote:	In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people.	The same thing applies to people who use and develop emacs.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs.
NotQuiteSane wrote:	BoneKracker wrote:	Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge?	Remember Linus' warning: Linus wrote:	In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people.	The same thing applies to people who use and develop emacs.
NQS	Steve Jobs did drugs. Linus didn't. There you go. Back to top
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs.
Prenj wrote:	Steve Jobs did drugs. Linus didn't. There you go. Are you implying that apple is useful for something other than seperating idiots from their money?
There is nothing else apple has ever done that couldn't be done better with what already existed.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs.
NotQuiteSane wrote:	Prenj wrote:	Steve Jobs did drugs. Linus didn't. There you go. Are you implying that apple is useful for something other than seperating idiots from their money?
NQS	It is also useful to separate aspergers from the rest. Back to top