Solo Mission Topics
by Natsuru Senou on Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:58 am
As suggested by Nozomi...
Although we like to strongly encourage multiplayer thread on Gladius some members feel we encourage multiplayer threads so much to the point of antagonizing solo threads. As it stands now you may only post once per day in a solo mission thread, with a yield of 5 EXP per post. Nozomi (and I believe Risu as well) suggested instead of a "one post a day" scheme it would be better to limit the amount of EXP that can be accumulated overall by a solo mission thread. This would mean, for instance, a D-rank mission done solo will only allow you to gain 50 EXP from posting in total. This would mean we would also have to edit the amount of EXP gained from solo mission topics as well as we will not expect you to post 10 posts for a simple D-rank mission for only 50 EXP.
Discussion of abusing missions have also been mentioned, which is why I suggested limiting solo missions to one mission per day. This would hinder mission grinding, while not making solo missions seem like a total waste of time. It is understandable that people do get busy IC and sometimes your character may be the odd one out. This gives the player another option to take on solo missions to yield decent EXP without having to spend literal weeks to get anything useful out of doing them solo.
Do we have any additional thoughts about this suggestion?
Re: Solo Mission Topics
by Akame on Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:18 pm
I can see making the post limit more than one a day, perhaps two or three per day, but making it an exp cap with no limits to total posts per day will still allow grinding. Grinding a D rank mission per day at 50 exp per mission is 350 experience per week, and it's foolish to say that people won't abuse that even if they have other people to roleplay with. Solo threads are not meant to be an every day common occurence, which is what can and probably will happen at some point if we change it to this suggestion.
Solo mission threads I'd be fine making 10 exp per post, though regular solo threads should stay at 5 exp. I'd also be fine increasing the post per day cap to two or three, but a flat exp cap per rank with no post restrictions is too easily abused.
by Masuyo Kaede on Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:47 pm
Tsuyo wrote: I can see making the post limit more than one a day, perhaps two or three per day, but making it an exp cap with no limits to total posts per day will still allow grinding. Grinding a D rank mission per day at 50 exp per mission is 350 experience per week, and it's foolish to say that people won't abuse that even if they have other people to roleplay with. Solo threads are not meant to be an every day common occurence, which is what can and probably will happen at some point if we change it to this suggestion.
Multiplayer topics are still the largest net gain for entertainment and exp. Taking a single mission a day for a week is a lot of dedication and would sum for taking a single multiplayer mission. Multiplayer topics are still the most valued
by Orochi Risu on Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:47 pm
An exp cap actually would NOT allow posting abuse. Sure, maybe 350 exp/week might sound alot, but for instance Kirigakure has 4-5 genin missions, so that would net a max amount of 250 exp and given the fact kage's decide wether or not you may do the mission, why not set a repeat limit as well?
Like you can only do each mission twice or so in total, that combined with the exp cap you can get would still allow people to pass the time when multiplayer is not easy to get (like in my case since I'm still stuck without a sensei). It allows control by kage/staff and still grants some freedom. allowing just two three posts would in a sense be ridiculous, given how much you can spam multiplayer posts for exp, while that is sort of unfair to some people with the current limited player base.
by Akame on Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:31 pm
Because you don't have to wait for people in a solo thread. Multiplayer topics award a lot of experience after weeks of going back and forth in most cases. It's not very often that you can grind out five to ten posts just by yourself on one character with one or two other people in the thread. Being able to do that every day by yourself lets you work around the usually slow procession of a multiplayer topic. That is my entire concern. I don't want people able to get more experience grinding missions for two weeks straight alone than they would get if they were in two multiplayer threads in a month.
by Masuyo Kaede on Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:14 pm
Tsuyo wrote: Because you don't have to wait for people in a solo thread. Multiplayer topics award a lot of experience after weeks of going back and forth in most cases. It's not very often that you can grind out five to ten posts just by yourself on one character with one or two other people in the thread. Being able to do that every day by yourself lets you work around the usually slow procession of a multiplayer topic. That is my entire concern. I don't want people able to get more experience grinding missions for two weeks straight alone than they would get if they were in two multiplayer threads in a month.
A month for a multiplayer mission is a problem unless it's a PC mission. And two people can easily go back and forth with a mission. Nothing's stopping them now
by Nikuyo on Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:37 pm
I said two multiplayer topics in a month, I agree one month is a bit of an issue for a single thread with two people. Still, I don't think anybody has posted 17 posts for one thread yet so far between any number of people and it's not usually that much in most cases. That's what you'd need to do between two people every mission thread to match what grinding D rank missions once per day for 50 experience can get you in a week. I understand the complaint about the one post a day limit, I agree with it looking at it in hindsight, I just don't like the suggested fix here is all.
by Orochi Risu on Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:45 pm
... I guess it's pointless to continue this discussion.
by Nozomi on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:23 pm
I've been on this site for like 2 weeks, and I have had a thread with 12 posts per person and a thread with 10 posts per person, only ended because exp collection and I had other threads waiting to be done and didn't want to do flashback threads. With simple back and forth that required no intense concentration (I sit on my phone during my 30 minute and 15 minute breaks to post at work), it's easy to push out 3 to 4 posts a day with another person.
I have net gained 270 exp in 2 weeks, in addition to the 250 starting. That was just casually posting. At a basic 4 weeks per month (a little longer of course, but I'll round down) with the same consistent casual posting, I can net 540 exp. That's assuming I'm not just pumping out posts with someone enmasse.
540 a month. Now let's compare that to solo posting. Right now, if you do a d rank mission a day (which I think is impossible in kiri due to the Missions being limited to being taken like once a month or something) then the net gain is 5 for a solo thread plus 10 for completing the mission. Doesn't matter how many posts you do. You can have 1 post or 60 posts, you'll only net 15 exp for the days post. If you do that every day for 2 weeks, that's 210 exp if you do that every single day for 14 days straight. And that assumes you dont stop to do a post with someone else, because then youre in flashback territory. Nobody does that though, so in reality it's a lot less.
5 exp once per day while alone is negligible. Compare to 10 (15 with sensei) per post with even one other person. 2, 3, 4, 5 posts per day?
10 for an entire solo mission regardless of the amount of posts is negligible. Compare to 20 (25 with sensei) per post per day when with even one other person. 2, 3, 4, 5 posts?
That's a large range of experience that is EASY to acquire. You don't even need to be a fast poster. Even one a day immediately fires you out of catching range by anyone doing solo. It's not even a contest. You're worried about someone mass posting to gain an asinine amount of exp when in the course of 2 threads I can do the same. There is nothing stopping multiplayer from easily surpassing a small cap on solo. I can do that in a day with Risu if we wanted to.
by Toonami & Konami on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:33 pm
@Nozomi wrote: There is nothing stopping multiplayer from easily surpassing a small cap on solo. I can do that in a day with Risu if we wanted to.
That's the thing though we want to encourage multiplayer posting and discourage single player posting. Single payer posting is meant to be at best a supplement to having regular topics with others. Everyone who wants a sensei should have one.
by Nozomi on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:49 pm
Discouraging and making it impossible are two different things. With a linear time line, and only really gaining experience with multiple people in a thread, there is no gain from solo posting, and 5 or 15 a day is nothing. It makes it impossible for someone to bridge any gap at all or even make some sort of progress.
by Nozomi on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:52 pm
A simple cap is fine if it isn't abused, and going into it assuming the players will abuse it is kinda strange I think. I get planning for worst case, but still.
by Masuyo Kaede on Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:26 pm
Experience abuse is something that can't always be prevented. I can very easily prove that if I wanted to dedicate some time with Noz who also has free time. A solo mission topic being limited to one day with capped exp is more than enough to allow freedom to do a solo topic without it being a complete and utter waste of time.
Wanting to enforce multiplayer is one thing, but antagonizing solo RPing is another as I said before. Not all topics can be multiplayer. Instead of putting those left out of topics in timeout we can at least give them some opportunity to accumulate exp. There is no real reason against this besides adamantly standing by the system in place. If you want to prevent EXP abuse you would have placed EXP limits on multiplayer topics and day limits as well.
by Ryuko on Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:15 pm
It does seem like this could be balanced a little better. Right now the ideal way to rack up exp is with 2 people since if they are both on they can bounce posts back and forth quickly.
I have to say it sucked having to make twelve bloody posts crafting only get 5 exp for the entire thing. Those are by far the worsts post I've done in years since I had no real motivation to actually bother trying to make them good.
On the other end of the specture for a system that's ment to encourage multiplayer posting it has a real flaw in that you when get more then 2 people together things can really really slow down. If I'm with my entire team I might get 25 exp per post, but that's far from great when I'm only getting to post once or twice a week.
by Akame on Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:31 am
Let's do the math for solo topics as you guys want it now, since Noz said she gained 540 in two weeks. 50 exp per day times 7 is 350 every week doing one mission a day, 700 exp in the same amount of time Noz describes, and 1400 in one month. All from solo topics. That is what I'm trying to avoid, because that much attainable experience via solo threads is just not okay. And that's only D rank missions, that's not even mentioning C and B rank spam. Can anybody tell me why making it a 3 post per day post limit at 10 exp per post would be a terrible thing? Because that still allows 210 experience per week, 420 every 2 weeks, and 840 every month. More than enough for solo threads.
by Orochi Risu on Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:57 am
3 solo posts/day at 10 exp? I can find myself in that
by Nozomi on Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:33 am
I'm not arguing for 50, but Tsuyo, the problem is you're assuming that someone is going to be able to, every single day, by themselves, for a month, do a solo mission in which they cap out at 50.
There's a couple things wrong with high balling the maximum. Solo threads are actually more difficult to complete considering it's harder to spit ball off yourself. There's a limited amount of D rank missions, and completing the same one multiple times is going to make it much more difficult to find a different way to do and type up the same thing.
Beyond that, I've gone through the missions lists. The amount of D rank available is tiny. Kage reserve the right to deny a person for any reason from completing a mission. In the cases of Kiri, Konoha, and Iwa's text blurbs, each mission is only completable once per month. Only jounin and kage can app more missions. It's actually impossible for your highball estimation of 1400 experience in a month.
by Orochi Risu on Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:06 am
Okay, in hindsight: 3 accountable (xp-giving) posts a day isn't quite that bad, though it shouldn't only count for just missions, but solo's in general. Given you can only have one solo/mission/thread active anyway (besides nearly pointless flashbacks) I reckon this would be the best compromise to satisfy everyone.
Solo missions: Max 3 accountable posts/day, 10 exp per post
Solo non-mission thread: Max 3 accountable posts/day, 5 exp per post.
This also means someone can't just finish a mission in a day and start a new one, since every most made counts to this total, new mission or not. Max 3 posts is max 3 posts.
Truth be told, the only issue left is the missions thing, I'd say we'd need more genin freedom, with more missions and certainly more library tech as well. Not everyone is lazy enough to start as a jonin
by Akame on Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:59 am
I'm fine with 3 a day for mission and non mission solo threads
by Orochi Risu on Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:58 am
anyone else NOT fine with the 3 posts a day for solos/solo missions?
If not, I reckon this is more or less the proposition to staff xD
by The Founder on Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:45 am
As far as mission additions, it's up to the discretion of the Kage. Most will be fine with players coming up with missions and PMing them to the Kage for addition to the list, regardless of character rank. They may also permit certain characters or those of certain rank to post on the mission board.
More techniques on the library only requires everyone to post in the technique requests thread whatever jutsu they want added. People are even free to register the techniques themselves and have those be added, to make the process a bit faster for everyone.
by Masuyo Kaede on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:10 pm
So it looks like we came to a conclusion:
We will allow experience gain for 3 posts a day for solo missions and topics. I will edit the rules accordingly. The change is in effect now.
Current date/time is Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:18 pm
Solo Mission Topics
by Natsuru Senou on Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:58 am
As suggested by Nozomi...
Although we like to strongly encourage multiplayer thread on Gladius some members feel we encourage multiplayer threads so much to the point of antagonizing solo threads. As it stands now you may only post once per day in a solo mission thread, with a yield of 5 EXP per post. Nozomi (and I believe Risu as well) suggested instead of a "one post a day" scheme it would be better to limit the amount of EXP that can be accumulated overall by a solo mission thread. This would mean, for instance, a D-rank mission done solo will only allow you to gain 50 EXP from posting in total. This would mean we would also have to edit the amount of EXP gained from solo mission topics as well as we will not expect you to post 10 posts for a simple D-rank mission for only 50 EXP.
Discussion of abusing missions have also been mentioned, which is why I suggested limiting solo missions to one mission per day. This would hinder mission grinding, while not making solo missions seem like a total waste of time. It is understandable that people do get busy IC and sometimes your character may be the odd one out. This gives the player another option to take on solo missions to yield decent EXP without having to spend literal weeks to get anything useful out of doing them solo.
Do we have any additional thoughts about this suggestion?
Re: Solo Mission Topics
by Akame on Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:18 pm
I can see making the post limit more than one a day, perhaps two or three per day, but making it an exp cap with no limits to total posts per day will still allow grinding. Grinding a D rank mission per day at 50 exp per mission is 350 experience per week, and it's foolish to say that people won't abuse that even if they have other people to roleplay with. Solo threads are not meant to be an every day common occurence, which is what can and probably will happen at some point if we change it to this suggestion.
Solo mission threads I'd be fine making 10 exp per post, though regular solo threads should stay at 5 exp. I'd also be fine increasing the post per day cap to two or three, but a flat exp cap per rank with no post restrictions is too easily abused.
by Masuyo Kaede on Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:47 pm
Tsuyo wrote: I can see making the post limit more than one a day, perhaps two or three per day, but making it an exp cap with no limits to total posts per day will still allow grinding. Grinding a D rank mission per day at 50 exp per mission is 350 experience per week, and it's foolish to say that people won't abuse that even if they have other people to roleplay with. Solo threads are not meant to be an every day common occurence, which is what can and probably will happen at some point if we change it to this suggestion.
Multiplayer topics are still the largest net gain for entertainment and exp. Taking a single mission a day for a week is a lot of dedication and would sum for taking a single multiplayer mission. Multiplayer topics are still the most valued
by Orochi Risu on Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:47 pm
An exp cap actually would NOT allow posting abuse. Sure, maybe 350 exp/week might sound alot, but for instance Kirigakure has 4-5 genin missions, so that would net a max amount of 250 exp and given the fact kage's decide wether or not you may do the mission, why not set a repeat limit as well?
Like you can only do each mission twice or so in total, that combined with the exp cap you can get would still allow people to pass the time when multiplayer is not easy to get (like in my case since I'm still stuck without a sensei). It allows control by kage/staff and still grants some freedom. allowing just two three posts would in a sense be ridiculous, given how much you can spam multiplayer posts for exp, while that is sort of unfair to some people with the current limited player base.
by Akame on Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:31 pm
Because you don't have to wait for people in a solo thread. Multiplayer topics award a lot of experience after weeks of going back and forth in most cases. It's not very often that you can grind out five to ten posts just by yourself on one character with one or two other people in the thread. Being able to do that every day by yourself lets you work around the usually slow procession of a multiplayer topic. That is my entire concern. I don't want people able to get more experience grinding missions for two weeks straight alone than they would get if they were in two multiplayer threads in a month.
by Masuyo Kaede on Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:14 pm
Tsuyo wrote: Because you don't have to wait for people in a solo thread. Multiplayer topics award a lot of experience after weeks of going back and forth in most cases. It's not very often that you can grind out five to ten posts just by yourself on one character with one or two other people in the thread. Being able to do that every day by yourself lets you work around the usually slow procession of a multiplayer topic. That is my entire concern. I don't want people able to get more experience grinding missions for two weeks straight alone than they would get if they were in two multiplayer threads in a month.
A month for a multiplayer mission is a problem unless it's a PC mission. And two people can easily go back and forth with a mission. Nothing's stopping them now
by Nikuyo on Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:37 pm
I said two multiplayer topics in a month, I agree one month is a bit of an issue for a single thread with two people. Still, I don't think anybody has posted 17 posts for one thread yet so far between any number of people and it's not usually that much in most cases. That's what you'd need to do between two people every mission thread to match what grinding D rank missions once per day for 50 experience can get you in a week. I understand the complaint about the one post a day limit, I agree with it looking at it in hindsight, I just don't like the suggested fix here is all.
by Orochi Risu on Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:45 pm
... I guess it's pointless to continue this discussion.
by Nozomi on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:23 pm
I've been on this site for like 2 weeks, and I have had a thread with 12 posts per person and a thread with 10 posts per person, only ended because exp collection and I had other threads waiting to be done and didn't want to do flashback threads. With simple back and forth that required no intense concentration (I sit on my phone during my 30 minute and 15 minute breaks to post at work), it's easy to push out 3 to 4 posts a day with another person.
I have net gained 270 exp in 2 weeks, in addition to the 250 starting. That was just casually posting. At a basic 4 weeks per month (a little longer of course, but I'll round down) with the same consistent casual posting, I can net 540 exp. That's assuming I'm not just pumping out posts with someone enmasse.
540 a month. Now let's compare that to solo posting. Right now, if you do a d rank mission a day (which I think is impossible in kiri due to the Missions being limited to being taken like once a month or something) then the net gain is 5 for a solo thread plus 10 for completing the mission. Doesn't matter how many posts you do. You can have 1 post or 60 posts, you'll only net 15 exp for the days post. If you do that every day for 2 weeks, that's 210 exp if you do that every single day for 14 days straight
. And that assumes you dont stop to do a post with someone else, because then youre in flashback territory. Nobody does that though, so in reality it's a lot less.
5 exp once per day while alone is negligible. Compare to 10 (15 with sensei) per post with even one other person. 2, 3, 4, 5 posts per day?
10 for an entire solo mission regardless of the amount of posts is negligible. Compare to 20 (25 with sensei) per post per day when with even one other person. 2, 3, 4, 5 posts?
That's a large range of experience that is EASY to acquire. You don't even need to be a fast poster. Even one a day immediately fires you out of catching range by anyone doing solo. It's not even a contest. You're worried about someone mass posting to gain an asinine amount of exp when in the course of 2 threads I can do the same. There is nothing stopping multiplayer from easily surpassing a small cap on solo. I can do that in a day with Risu if we wanted to.
by Toonami & Konami on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:33 pm
@Nozomi wrote: There is nothing stopping multiplayer from easily surpassing a small cap on solo. I can do that in a day with Risu if we wanted to.
That's the thing though we want to encourage multiplayer posting and discourage single player posting. Single payer posting is meant to be at best a supplement to having regular topics with others. Everyone who wants a sensei should have one.
by Nozomi on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:49 pm
Discouraging and making it impossible are two different things. With a linear time line, and only really gaining experience with multiple people in a thread, there is no gain from solo posting, and 5 or 15 a day is nothing. It makes it impossible for someone to bridge any gap at all or even make some sort of progress.
by Nozomi on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:52 pm
A simple cap is fine if it isn't abused, and going into it assuming the players will abuse it is kinda strange I think. I get planning for worst case, but still.
by Masuyo Kaede on Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:26 pm
Experience abuse is something that can't always be prevented. I can very easily prove that if I wanted to dedicate some time with Noz who also has free time. A solo mission topic being limited to one day with capped exp is more than enough to allow freedom to do a solo topic without it being a complete and utter waste of time.
Wanting to enforce multiplayer is one thing, but antagonizing solo RPing is another as I said before. Not all topics can be multiplayer. Instead of putting those left out of topics in timeout we can at least give them some opportunity to accumulate exp. There is no real reason against this besides adamantly standing by the system in place. If you want to prevent EXP abuse you would have placed EXP limits on multiplayer topics and day limits as well.
by Ryuko on Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:15 pm
It does seem like this could be balanced a little better. Right now the ideal way to rack up exp is with 2 people since if they are both on they can bounce posts back and forth quickly.
I have to say it sucked having to make twelve bloody posts crafting only get 5 exp for the entire thing. Those are by far the worsts post I've done in years since I had no real motivation to actually bother trying to make them good.
On the other end of the specture for a system that's ment to encourage multiplayer posting it has a real flaw in that you when get more then 2 people together things can really really slow down. If I'm with my entire team I might get 25 exp per post, but that's far from great when I'm only getting to post once or twice a week.
by Akame on Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:31 am
Let's do the math for solo topics as you guys want it now, since Noz said she gained 540 in two weeks. 50 exp per day times 7 is 350 every week doing one mission a day, 700 exp in the same amount of time Noz describes, and 1400 in one month. All from solo topics. That is what I'm trying to avoid, because that much attainable experience via solo threads is just not okay. And that's only D rank missions, that's not even mentioning C and B rank spam. Can anybody tell me why making it a 3 post per day post limit at 10 exp per post would be a terrible thing? Because that still allows 210 experience per week, 420 every 2 weeks, and 840 every month. More than enough for solo threads.
by Orochi Risu on Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:57 am
3 solo posts/day at 10 exp? I can find myself in that
by Nozomi on Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:33 am
I'm not arguing for 50, but Tsuyo, the problem is you're assuming that someone is going to be able to, every single day, by themselves, for a month, do a solo mission in which they cap out at 50.
There's a couple things wrong with high balling the maximum. Solo threads are actually more difficult to complete considering it's harder to spit ball off yourself. There's a limited amount of D rank missions, and completing the same one multiple times is going to make it much more difficult to find a different way to do and type up the same thing.
Beyond that, I've gone through the missions lists. The amount of D rank available is tiny. Kage reserve the right to deny a person for any reason from completing a mission. In the cases of Kiri, Konoha, and Iwa's text blurbs, each mission is only completable once per month. Only jounin and kage can app more missions. It's actually impossible for your highball estimation of 1400 experience in a month.
by Orochi Risu on Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:06 am
Okay, in hindsight: 3 accountable (xp-giving) posts a day isn't quite that bad, though it shouldn't only count for just missions, but solo's in general. Given you can only have one solo/mission/thread active anyway (besides nearly pointless flashbacks) I reckon this would be the best compromise to satisfy everyone.
Solo missions: Max 3 accountable posts/day, 10 exp per post
Solo non-mission thread: Max 3 accountable posts/day, 5 exp per post.
This also means someone can't just finish a mission in a day and start a new one, since every most made counts to this total, new mission or not. Max 3 posts is max 3 posts.
Truth be told, the only issue left is the missions thing, I'd say we'd need more genin freedom, with more missions and certainly more library tech as well. Not everyone is lazy enough to start as a jonin
by Akame on Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:59 am
I'm fine with 3 a day for mission and non mission solo threads
by Orochi Risu on Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:58 am
anyone else NOT fine with the 3 posts a day for solos/solo missions?
If not, I reckon this is more or less the proposition to staff xD
by The Founder on Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:45 am
As far as mission additions, it's up to the discretion of the Kage. Most will be fine with players coming up with missions and PMing them to the Kage for addition to the list, regardless of character rank. They may also permit certain characters or those of certain rank to post on the mission board.
More techniques on the library only requires everyone to post in the technique requests thread whatever jutsu they want added. People are even free to register the techniques themselves and have those be added, to make the process a bit faster for everyone.
by Masuyo Kaede on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:10 pm
So it looks like we came to a conclusion:
We will allow experience gain for 3 posts a day for solo missions and topics. I will edit the rules accordingly. The change is in effect now.
Current date/time is Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:18 pm