OK all wasn't Peachy Last year, Flip taking No Crap this year | Page 3 | Detroit Pistons Forum
Wow that's a great read and a perspective I never even really considered until that article.
It must have been tough for Flip to walk that tight rope. He knew he couldn't make too many changes to a 2x EC Champ. He was the new kid on the block, coming into a well established team. Last season was a no win one for Flip. If he makes changes and loses, its his fault for tinkering. If he keeps things the same and they lose, its his fault because he's the only new guy on a team that has reached the finals 2 years in a row.
Our skepticism was only hightened due to his less than stellar playoff record. We were just waiting to vilify him.
I think the first 3 quarters of last year's regular season lulled us into a false sense of security.
Last year's playoff collapse might have been the best thing for this team - short term and long.
It forced Joe D to re-evaluate his plan and also to bring in some better (and respected) assistants. It forced the team out of their comfort zone. It forced the players to wake up and listen. It forced Flip to take charge of this team. And it forced us as fans to reflect on just how spoiled we've been these past few years.
Thanks for the article Roscoe! I'm feeling better about things already!
Good post jammer. I agree with what you wrote, but will also add that this season there are no excuses. Joe turned over the face of the franchise, brought in top flight assistants, and their is talent to-be-discovered on the bench.
More so than last year, everything is stacked in Flip's favour to win a title on his own merit.
More so than last year, everything is stacked in Flip's favour to win a title on his own merit.Click to expand...
Moreover, he will recieve even more criticism should the Pistons falter, however, losing Ben will be made a huge factor if that happens.
Flip is a moron if he plans to use zone as a main defense. Does he seriously think it will shut down Wade, Lebron, Kobe, AI, and all the other stars in the league? Zone works in flashes. It will not work a whole game let alone the whole playoffs. The rest of the Pistons better take no crap either.
After last season's collapse, I'm willing to give Flip's system a chance. But it won't work unless every player buys into it.
The players on this team are the best when they play as a team. The whole is better than the sum of its parts for sure. We saw what happened with dissention in the ranks last season.
We haven't seen the Pistons play zone yet. Not with 100% effort and commitment that is needed. They didn't exactly do a great job of shutting down LBJ or Wade in last year's playoffs playing man either.
I just hope Flip finally has the team's attention and trust.
I just hope Flip finally has the team's attention and trust.Click to expand...
i agree jammer. i also feel that shutting down LBJ, or Wade, or Kobe, or whomever isn't necessarily the critical thing. The critical thing is shutting down options 2, 3, 4, etc... watching j-will go off in game 6 last year was just painful. that man, though he is a fine player, should not be the guy going off to knock you out of the playoffs. maybe the zone -- played the way you describe -- will help with those types of guys.
i agree jammer. i also feel that shutting down LBJ, or Wade, or Kobe, or whomever isn't necessarily the critical thing. The critical thing is shutting down options 2, 3, 4, etc... watching j-will go off in game 6 last year was just painful. that man, though he is a fine player, should not be the guy going off to knock you out of the playoffs. maybe the zone -- played the way you describe -- will help with those types of guys.Click to expand...
What was worse was seeing Chauncey playing like he was the worst PG in the league even though he's arguably the best. Every quarter I was thinking Chauncey is going to do it know. He's going to take it to Jason Williams and the Pistons will come back. That moment never came though.
Every quarter I was thinking Chauncey is going to do it know. He's going to take it to Jason Williams and the Pistons will come back. That moment never came though.Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing. Not only of Chauncey, but the entire team. When it came down to crunch time, I was thinking "Ok, here it comes". But it never did.
After a few games of the same result, it was clear that the Pistons had lost their trademark "clutch" play. But what was even more disturbing, was that it was clear that we had lost our trademark Pistons.
Let me begin by saying, anyway the Pistons can bring home a championship, I am with that. If it means playing a zone, so be it.
This brings me to a thread from last season; Can the Pistons change their identity and stay successful? What I am hearing on the forum is two things, patience to see if the zone ever materializes and, or is successful, or the zone will never work. I fall in the latter category.
Now the NBA is changing, with defenses being called differently, and more closely. What is the thinking behind a zone defense in the NBA really stopping someone? If I remember correctly the refs are not allowing any hand checks, actually no touching whatsoever, not to mention the defensive 3 seconds.
So, can someone, perhaps someone who believes this zone will work, please explain how the Pistons will implement it successfully.
Agreed. But its not the Defensive set. It doesn't matter if its Zone, man, box and 1, it comes down to the little things. The intensity, the commitment, and the fine tunings...the adjustments...that get it done. it didn't seem like we rotated well compared to miami.
So, can someone, perhaps someone who believes this zone will work, please explain how the Pistons will implement it successfully.Click to expand...
When I played HS ball we played various zone defense... primarily a 2-3 zone... the 2-3 is where you have 3 defenders in the paint area and 2 defenders beyond the FT line extended (imaginary arc)... this was especially successful for teams with slashers and not necesarily good perimiter shooters.... it took teams out of their comfort zone... it can be beat by gaurds that are good ball handlers that can penetrate deep inside and force a collapse... then kick it out for an open J...
The 2-3 is also useful for covering a big in foul trouble or a big that's slower of foot (Nazr).
Our coach was adamant about playing an agressive on the ball zone (reducing open pockets).
Another zone is 1-2-2 zone... this is useful against good outside shooting teams (Suns, Sonics) where you can use perimiter traps more effectively.
There is a 1-3-1 zone... this is mostly a gimick zone used where you have one guy outside trying to create havoc (Hunter) while teams think it's a 1-2-2 it can be used for eliminating the dribble penetration and mid range scoring.
An effective zone is desguised by starting of man to man and switching... it's confusing to the offense.... they have to make adjustments in mid play... very useful late in the shot clock.
A 2-3 zone is good for a full court trap because you can quickly get back to an area without having to worry about individual responsibilities.
In essence you apply the zone defense to reflect what the opponents strengths are... it give a team more to think about... zones can be beat by good shooting... good penetration and ball reversal (finding the pockets).
Flip uses a man zone at times that is basically man coverage and switching all picks to the zone responsibility... he likes to mix and match... it can be useful in spurts just not relying solely on one look.
OK all wasn't Peachy Last year, Flip taking No Crap this year | Page 3 | Detroit Pistons Forum
Wow that's a great read and a perspective I never even really considered until that article.
It must have been tough for Flip to walk that tight rope. He knew he couldn't make too many changes to a 2x EC Champ. He was the new kid on the block, coming into a well established team. Last season was a no win one for Flip. If he makes changes and loses, its his fault for tinkering. If he keeps things the same and they lose, its his fault because he's the only new guy on a team that has reached the finals 2 years in a row.
Our skepticism was only hightened due to his less than stellar playoff record. We were just waiting to vilify him.
I think the first 3 quarters of last year's regular season lulled us into a false sense of security.
Last year's playoff collapse might have been the best thing for this team - short term and long.
It forced Joe D to re-evaluate his plan and also to bring in some better (and respected) assistants. It forced the team out of their comfort zone. It forced the players to wake up and listen. It forced Flip to take charge of this team. And it forced us as fans to reflect on just how spoiled we've been these past few years.
Thanks for the article Roscoe! I'm feeling better about things already!
Good post jammer. I agree with what you wrote, but will also add that this season there are no excuses. Joe turned over the face of the franchise, brought in top flight assistants, and their is talent to-be-discovered on the bench.
More so than last year, everything is stacked in Flip's favour to win a title on his own merit.
More so than last year, everything is stacked in Flip's favour to win a title on his own merit.Click to expand...
Moreover, he will recieve even more criticism should the Pistons falter, however, losing Ben will be made a huge factor if that happens.
Flip is a moron if he plans to use zone as a main defense. Does he seriously think it will shut down Wade, Lebron, Kobe, AI, and all the other stars in the league? Zone works in flashes. It will not work a whole game let alone the whole playoffs. The rest of the Pistons better take no crap either.
After last season's collapse, I'm willing to give Flip's system a chance. But it won't work unless every player buys into it.
The players on this team are the best when they play as a team. The whole is better than the sum of its parts for sure. We saw what happened with dissention in the ranks last season.
We haven't seen the Pistons play zone yet. Not with 100% effort and commitment that is needed. They didn't exactly do a great job of shutting down LBJ or Wade in last year's playoffs playing man either.
I just hope Flip finally has the team's attention and trust.
I just hope Flip finally has the team's attention and trust.Click to expand...
i agree jammer. i also feel that shutting down LBJ, or Wade, or Kobe, or whomever isn't necessarily the critical thing. The critical thing is shutting down options 2, 3, 4, etc... watching j-will go off in game 6 last year was just painful. that man, though he is a fine player, should not be the guy going off to knock you out of the playoffs. maybe the zone -- played the way you describe -- will help with those types of guys.
i agree jammer. i also feel that shutting down LBJ, or Wade, or Kobe, or whomever isn't necessarily the critical thing. The critical thing is shutting down options 2, 3, 4, etc... watching j-will go off in game 6 last year was just painful. that man, though he is a fine player, should not be the guy going off to knock you out of the playoffs. maybe the zone -- played the way you describe -- will help with those types of guys.Click to expand...
What was worse was seeing Chauncey playing like he was the worst PG in the league
 even though he's arguably the best. Every quarter I was thinking Chauncey is going to do it know. He's going to take it to Jason Williams and the Pistons will come back. That moment never came though.
Every quarter I was thinking Chauncey is going to do it know. He's going to take it to Jason Williams and the Pistons will come back. That moment never came though.Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing. Not only of Chauncey, but the entire team. When it came down to crunch time, I was thinking "Ok, here it comes". But it never did.
After a few games of the same result, it was clear that the Pistons had lost their trademark "clutch" play. But what was even more disturbing, was that it was clear that we had lost our trademark Pistons.
Let me begin by saying, anyway the Pistons can bring home a championship, I am with that. If it means playing a zone, so be it.
This brings me to a thread from last season; Can the Pistons change their identity and stay successful? What I am hearing on the forum is two things, patience to see if the zone ever materializes and, or is successful, or the zone will never work. I fall in the latter category.
Now the NBA is changing, with defenses being called differently, and more closely. What is the thinking behind a zone defense in the NBA really stopping someone? If I remember correctly the refs are not allowing any hand checks, actually no touching whatsoever, not to mention the defensive 3 seconds.
So, can someone, perhaps someone who believes this zone will work, please explain how the Pistons will implement it successfully.
Agreed. But its not the Defensive set. It doesn't matter if its Zone, man, box and 1, it comes down to the little things. The intensity, the commitment, and the fine tunings...the adjustments...that get it done. it didn't seem like we rotated well compared to miami.
So, can someone, perhaps someone who believes this zone will work, please explain how the Pistons will implement it successfully.Click to expand...
When I played HS ball we played various zone defense... primarily a 2-3 zone... the 2-3 is where you have 3 defenders in the paint area and 2 defenders beyond the FT line extended (imaginary arc)... this was especially successful for teams with slashers and not necesarily good perimiter shooters.... it took teams out of their comfort zone... it can be beat by gaurds that are good ball handlers that can penetrate deep inside and force a collapse... then kick it out for an open J...
The 2-3 is also useful for covering a big in foul trouble or a big that's slower of foot (Nazr).
Our coach was adamant about playing an agressive on the ball zone (reducing open pockets).
Another zone is 1-2-2 zone... this is useful against good outside shooting teams (Suns, Sonics) where you can use perimiter traps more effectively.
There is a 1-3-1 zone... this is mostly a gimick zone used where you have one guy outside trying to create havoc (Hunter) while teams think it's a 1-2-2 it can be used for eliminating the dribble penetration and mid range scoring.
An effective zone is desguised by starting of man to man and switching... it's confusing to the offense.... they have to make adjustments in mid play... very useful late in the shot clock.
A 2-3 zone is good for a full court trap because you can quickly get back to an area without having to worry about individual responsibilities.
In essence you apply the zone defense to reflect what the opponents strengths are... it give a team more to think about... zones can be beat by good shooting... good penetration and ball reversal (finding the pockets).
Flip uses a man zone at times that is basically man coverage and switching all picks to the zone responsibility... he likes to mix and match... it can be useful in spurts just not relying solely on one look.